22,000+++ Views for true lilly...

Billy Ruben wrote:YES YOU DID MAGGOT ACCUSE OXPIXIE,WHY WOULD I DO IT,NOT MY STYLE OF LOWY LIKE YOU SHITBAG WHO'VE BEEN DOING THIS FOR YEAR,YOU ONLY DENY IT CAUSE,YOU ARE TRYING TO PRESS CHARGES...AND IT ISN'T WORKING...AND SOON AS I TELL BALLARAT POLICE WHAT YOU SAY ABOUT YOUR EX-COPPER HUSBAND,YOU WON'T BE LOOKED AFTER,YOU'LL GET THE PSYCHE WARD,COURTEOUSY OF ME...

LILLYS' NEW PLOY TODAY,IS SPAM AS MANY LIES IN ONE POST,THINKING I'LL EXHAUST MYSELF COUNTERING THEM,SORRY,I ALREADY PUT OUT THE TRUTHFUL EVENTS,SHE'S A LITTLE TO SLOW THIS TIME AROUND AND HOPES TO BURY IT,UNDER TONNES OF SHIT,TO HISE HER LYING,CALLOUS,COLD-HEARTED SIDE...I AM NOT,SCUM LIKE HER,DESERVE MY WRATH AND EVERYONE ELSES WHO'VE BEEN SO INSULTED BY THIS MINDLESS BINT OVER THE YEARS,REGARDS.

Billy Ruben wrote:IF THERE IS ONE THING I ACHIEVED WITH THIS BITCH THIS WEEK,IS THE SUPPOSEDLY UNBENDING SUZY RYAN/TRUE LILLY SLAG OF BALLARAT,LIED,WORMED AND TWISTED HER WAY OUT OF THE SLANDER SHE SAID ABOUT OZPIXIE...WE ALL SEEN IT FOR OURSELVES,NOW SHE'S TRYING TO BLUFF HER WAY OUT,I NEVER KNEW HER NAME (OZPIXIE)STILL DON'T,SHE RECKONED SHE DID,UNTIL PROVEN WRONG BY "I AM"...NOW SHE'S SHIT SCARED OF YOU PEOPLE SEEING HER FOR WHAT SHE REALLY IS...AND THE REASON SHE REALLY SPREADS RUMOURS AND LIES,SHE'S A PATHETIC IMP OF A WOMAN,THAT HAS NOBODY IN LIFE,THAT REALLY COULD LOVE THAT THING...

Billy Ruben wrote:

true lilly wrote:Gee, I wonder why
"tintin's" thread HAS LOST SO MANY READERS...
...and isn't this "supposed" to be,
"The ANTI-DAVID ICKE SITE"...

EVEN IF THAT WAS TRUE,WHICH IT ISN'T,IT'S YOU WHO LOST THE READERS,THAT'S WHY YOU BITCHED SO LONG ABOUT GETTING BACK ON DIF (GOOD ON YOU CORI ),AT LEAST PEOPLE CAN SEE THE TRUE REASON YOU SPREAD LIES AND RUMOURS,YOU ONLY FOOL YOURSELF INTO BELIEVING OTHERS WOULD FOLLOW YOUR LEAD,...THAT'S WHY I LIKE TO LEAVE YOUR PHONE NUMBER AND ENCOURAGE OTHERS TO RING YOU,SO THEY SEE FOR THEMSELVES WHAT A CHEAP PIECE OF SHIT AND NUTJOB YOU REALLY ARE...RUMOURS FLY FAST,BUT MINE ARE THE TRUTH...AND YOU LOSE,CAUSE OF ME...UP YOURS S.RYAN...

SUZY'S PHONE NUMBER: 0424705576

EVERYTHING IN THE ABOVE POST IS A PROVEN LIE,KEEP CLUTCHING TO THE HOPE SOME FUCKTARD AS STUPID AS YOU,BELIEVES IT...

true lilly wrote:Good readers, as I see Billy Ruben is polluting my threads with the equivalent of
what one would find in the chamber pot of a man dying of vile diseases (and so,
not something one would want to pick through the details of),

DEAR READERS,YOU'LL UNDERSTAND WHY I HATE THIS SLAG MORE THAN ANYONE ON THE NET,SHE''LL USE ANY KNOWLEDGE IN HER POWER,IF SHE THINKS IT'S A WEAKNESS OR A GOOD POINT OF ATTACK,THAT'S WHY,I'M SHAMELESS AND BLAMELESS AND DO THE SAME BACK,USING HER FAMILY THAT TURNED ON HER,FOR THE SAME BRAND OF FUCKTARD NUTTINESS.WHAT I DID CONFIRM AT HPANWO,WAS MY LYMPHOCYTES ARE OUT,WHICH IS QUITE SPEEDY IN DEVELOPEMENT,CONSIDERING I HAD A CLEAN BILL OF HEALTH IN JANUARY,I HAD THE THIRD BLOOD TEST TODAY,SO HOPING THE RESULTS GO BACK TO NORMAL BY NEXT WEEK.IT'S A RECIPE FOR LEUKEMIA,SHE KNEW THIS,CAUSE SHE LIKES THE RUMOUR MILL,AND MR SOD TIPPED HER OFF,FROM MY STINT AS DAVID VINCENT...AS LONG AS YOU PEOPLE KNOW,REMEMBER THE PATTERNS WITH THE SATANIST DAUGHTER...SEE,I DON'T MIND THEM BOTH DOING THAT,I'LL LET IT PLAY EENIE MEENIE MINIE MOE...AND SEE WHICH ONE DESERVES THEIR COME UPPANCE THE MOST...SUCK MY COCK...



[quote="true lilly"][color=darkblue]Good readers, as I see Billy Ruben is polluting my threads with the equivalent of
what one would find in the chamber pot of a man dying of vile diseases (and so,
not something one would want to pick through the details of), I'll simply post my reply
to his, not at all private, message to me on the same subjects, which though I didn't
bother answering point for point, will give you a sound and clear overview of 'his' problem with my character.

Billy Ruben wrote:

true lilly wrote:So, 'billy' Jason,
you still haven't figured out why the smarter ones hand-balled you this:
"Keep pushing and I'll destroy you good and proper.", job.

Billy Ruben wrote:I just sent Alison (I am) an email of this thread with your accusations about Ozpixie.As long as it don't go against their non-disclosure agreement,I asked her to inform Christine of this thread and to please give me information why True Lilly,(mental basket case spastic bitch),why would one of Gods' anointed would make such a claim?

I also asked for information about you madam...not where you live,but what you've done to others and the games and back-stabbing you involve yourself with,thankyou Lulzy for admitting this,it was arsehole game players is why I left DIF in the end,but I might just re-activate my account...and keep a low profile...the rant room is too tempting....And you know why arsehole???I'll rant every thread you've done,lost in the bowels of the rant room...Then,I'll ask Ozpixie to take you to court over your accusations,by using the police,(they'll help her...then when it's thrown out of court cause we just found out you're a registered mental patient...a real one!!!...then I will be ever so sorry I spoke ill to you...and forgive you for your harassment and games you play...if not,you're gonna look stupid,at any rate...and if Ozpixie does cough up...and reveals your lies and games the same as everyone else asserts,then your readers,must be as mental and fucked in the head as you...have a nice day.

So, 'billy' Jason,
you still haven't figured out why the smarter ones hand-balled you this:
"Keep pushing and I'll destroy you good and proper."[color=black], job....'smart'er...
smart, would be to stop trusting idiots to supply 'intelligence',
and to stop expecting that insanity to not backfire.

But if 'YOU' want to KEEP OUTING OZPIXIE, fine.
I'll tell 'you' if it's the same Christine.



So, 'billy' Jason,
you still haven't figured out why the smarter ones hand-balled you this:
"Keep pushing and I'll destroy you good and proper.", job.

It's because you have become a liability TO THEM.
In fact, all you bitterly chattering monkey's have.

btw... WHAT is IT 'you' claim I'm "pushing"?

I knew you'd post when you thought the coast was clear,or,you got told I logged off,ROFLMAO ,see,I use head,you and your ilk,cheat.
True Lilly admits,tried to worm out..

But if 'YOU' want to KEEP OUTING OZPIXIE, fine.
I'll tell 'you' if it's the same Christine.

t0o late,you already claimed it is her...and that you warned others way back at ATS,which is a heap of a shit forum,the same with Godlike,them and you,would'nt wipe my arse with...

Now,even better,you're not even sure it's the same Ozpixie...not only that,you just displayed your willing to spread rumours with no basis of truth,I'm going to spam every fuckin thread with this now...thankyou,like Manna from heaven in the quest,to slay the dragon known as True Lilly...you got nothing mate...you just lost all your so-called credibilty by yourself,in two short lines...I love you again...Hahahahahahaha

...But I suppose you all knew that,stupid bint,could'nt get any interest and spread rumours about dogfuckers and babyrapers...where it was probably an uncle or step dad who tricked her out.Anyway,I'd love to see the evidence where she tries to extort the forum for money...pathetic she is,anyway,it's a war and it's grizzley,sorry about this to human eyes,but it's the way it is...
She tried extorting Tintin too,everything she accuses one of,believe me,it's the opposite...she's a true lowlife,see it in the street,don't hit it,don't pity it,expectorate on it...in other words,hawk it right back and spit it heavy in her face,that's what I intend on doing...

Billy Ruben wrote:

Billy Ruben wrote:Anyone of unfounded crimes and atrocities ever again I swear,I'll pursue you to the ends of the Earth,your God,will not protect you...

How dare you,pick on someone that can't even defend themselves.
Do you know how much hurt and pain your stupid little game does,how does mine back to you feel? Get it,myopic slag???
Ozpixie would never be what you accuse her off.

Quote: I Am

Jase,

I would not even show this to ozpixie as I know how much it would upset her and trust me, she does not need this sort of disgusting accusation in her life.

I have been slated by the best of them but really don’t give a toss. I know who I am and my friends and family know who I am.. I have been around long enough that it is water off a duck’s back.

Oz on the other hand is a very sweet lady who is not all that savvy to the hatred spread on the net.

I cannot give you too much information but I can assure you she is not the person true lilly believes she is. Her name is not Christine and she has never met or had any contact with lilly. She is not only not from Ballarat, She is not even from the same state.

How's that for showing what little you really know,eh? But still quite prepared to vomit your bullshit.You got no credibility and you make the Anti-Icke movement look cold and hate-filled with no warrant to be...and for that

I THANK YOU

ANYWAY,YOU'RE NOT GETTING LET OFF,WHILST YOU STILL USE GENERAL FORUM,i WILL HAUNT YOU,BACK IN YOUR DUNGEON DRAGON...AND WHILE YOU'RE THERE,ACCUSE ANYBODY OF ANY SEXUAL CRIME AND I WILL TAUNT AND HAUNT YOU MORE...

THIS WILL NOT END,I WILL AWAIT YOU AND DESTROY EVERY SYLLABLE YOU DARE UTTER IN FUTURE...F*CK YOU,IS THE ORDER FOR EVERYDAY,DRAGON...

Billy Ruben wrote:ANSWER ME YOU GOD WHORE,WHY ACCUSE SOMEONE MEEK AND MILD OF AN ATROCITY THAT SHE COULD'NT EVEN READ ABOUT,LET ALONE PERFORM,WITH NO EVIDENCE AS USUAL,BUT YOU SEEM PRE-OCCUPIED WITH THIS SUBJECT,AND NAMED OZPIXIE WRONG,BUT STILL PERSIST,WHY SPREAD VICIOUS LIES AND RUMOURS,JUST SO PEOPLE WOULD TAKE NOTICE OF YOUR POST,BITCH!!!
I ALSO NOTICED YOU NEVER MENTIONED CIGGY AND I FOR MONTHS,UNTIL YOU FOUND I WAS POSTING AT HPANWO...WAS THIS THE BIGGEST BUNGLE YOU AND YOUR ILK MADE,I KNOW SO,HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA,F*CK YOU....
ALL THIS JUST TO RAISE YOUR READERSHIP...IF YOU WERE'NT SUCH A SPASTIC,YOU'D STILL BE WHERE YOU WANT TO BE,THE DAVID ICKE FORUMS...NER,NER,NER,NER

Billy Ruben wrote:

Billy Ruben wrote:

Billy Ruben wrote:I just sent Alison (I am) an email of this thread with your accusations about Ozpixie.As long as it don't go against their non-disclosure agreement,I asked her to inform Christine of this thread and to please give me information why True Lilly,(mental basket case spastic bitch),why would one of Gods' anointed would make such a claim?

I also asked for information about you madam...not where you live,but what you've done to others and the games and back-stabbing you involve yourself with,thankyou Lulzy for admitting this,it was arsehole game players is why I left DIF in the end,but I might just re-activate my account...and keep a low profile...the rant room is too tempting....And you know why arsehole???I'll rant every thread you've done,lost in the bowels of the rant room...Then,I'll ask Ozpixie to take you to court over your accusations,by using the police,(they'll help her...then when it's thrown out of court cause we just found out you're a registered mental patient...a real one!!!...then I will be ever so sorry I spoke ill to you...and forgive you for your harassment and games you play...if not,you're gonna look stupid,at any rate...and if Ozpixie does cough up...and reveals your lies and games the same as everyone else asserts,then your readers,must be as mental and fucked in the head as you...have a nice day.

and just to let the discerning reader know...

Billy Ruben wrote:

Billy Ruben wrote:Hey Mental Patient,since you assert that you can answer questions,without spam I hope,...

What justifies you calling Christine/Ozpixie a goat fucker and that she makes men do it for bribery purposes???

Would you not consider that the men would rather f*ck Ozpixie than goats...but the possibilty is,that the men might rather f*ck a goat than some broken shrunken imp of a person such as yourself???

Why do you always label people goat,dog/fuckers,peadophiles?I have,but they and I know the truth of it...Even proved a few things that go on deaf ears.

You're sick Suzy,real sick...if you get sanctioned in a mental home,I'll forgive you,but you're on the street being a danger to yourself and everybody else...I can con a mental health team Suzy,5 minute chat with you,they'll never let you out,they hate God botherers the most in psyche-wards,drug the absolute crap out of them...

Billy Ruben wrote:

Billy Ruben wrote:

true lilly wrote:

Billy Ruben wrote:

So,where is the sex/porn spam,do you still think beastiality is natural sex???You see,Lilly,it's about interpretations,what you view as natural and loving,the law of the land regards as perverse and criminal...but in danger of giving the judge an erection

...and your 'double speak' is so weak and transparent...could it be that
you are the local horse rapist that the judges keep letting off...

true lilly wrote:sadly, some 'sick puppies' are so sick, a bullet's their only 'cure'... ...
... or you could simply 'you' 'ninny' 'billy' goat shagger's...

...umm, so 'you' do 'know' Christine in your satanic biblical sense, that local
animal raping ex-copper's witch...
...she couldn't get enough of making men fcuk goats...them blackmailing them...
...to stay in her sick death circles forever...I did warn people about her, years ago,
back in the ATS days...mind you, she and her ilk are a dime a dozen cheap slags...
...I'm sure you can find another if she's no longer available...now go, to
your own kind...I can't even pity you...

Are you kidding...No,this comes from the lips of True Lilly,it's all batshit...

Lilly,stop telling lies and no,I don't know Christine/OzPixie...Imagine that eh?David Icke Forum Moderators are either Illuminati Shills like Dark Eternal or goat fucking satanist like OzPixie,cause True Lilly tells me so...

No Lilly,I don't think they'll let you back on DIF....EVER.

DO YOU SEE THE PATTERN TRUE LILLY,EVERYONE YOU TAKE A DISLIKE TOO,IS PAINTED A GOATFUCKER,BABYFUCKER OR SOMETHING ELSE.YOU HAVE ISSUES IN THIS AREA,AND IT'S ALL TO DO WITH YOUR PERCEPTION OF YOURSELF.IF YOU WERE MADE TO DO THINGS WHEN YOU WERE YOUNG,IT'S NOT YOUR FAULT,IF YOU INSTIGATED IT,THEN GET OVER IT AND MOVE ON...YOU POINT THE FINGER SUZY,BUT IT'S NOT THE FIRST TIME I HAVE FIGURED YOU OUT,READ YOUR PM ABOUT YOUR FAMILY...

Billy Ruben wrote:This is not such a bad way to go actually,my way,I would've destroyed you,but the fall-out for me would be just as bad...this way,we can deal with the FACTS as you've claimed...

Once you have no credibilty,you can post spam to the wall,cause there is no-way anyone will believe you...Hey,how come you have'nt called in the cavalry??? (hOrSeY-Palomino)...when it gets out of control you usually sink to every method that you accuse David Icke and Tintin of...
Gang-stalking,harassment,etc...when the dust settles,was that one little lie that kicked this all off a year ago,...Was it All Worth It?

Billy Ruben wrote:

Billy Ruben wrote:

true lilly wrote:Nothing 'private' about this, 'you' 'ninny nong'...

So, which is it?
"Billy Ruben" makes a serious threat, or, he's all lying talk?

From Billy Ruben To true lilly, Today at 4:28 pm
____________________________________________________________________

true lilly wrote:
So, you still haven't figured out why the smarter ones hand-balled you this:
"Keep pushing and I'll destroy you good and proper.", job.
_____________________________________________________________________

quote:Billy Ruben


your a goner mate...
_____________________________________________________________________

Either way...'you & Ciggy' simply shouldn't have spammed, my one thread,
with 'you & Ciggy's' endless public 'conversations' about 'you & Ciggy's'
'beliefs' on when a child is too young or too related to lust after, and then
stepped up 'your' phone and on line harassment, when I asked 'you', again,
to remove that, utterly sick, way off topic, 'conversation' of 'yours',
from my thread, that was 'chopped up' to have 'those conversations'
of 'you & Ciggy', head and end the pages, as if it where my topic...and then cry,
rant, libel, make endless personal threats and try to sound like 'you'
AND 'your' supportive ASSOCIATES are 'good guys'.

Mind you, as 'Billy Ruben & Ciggy' thought it funny at the time of 'that conversation',
that I should ask them to stop spamming my thread with 'their' sick 'fishing', and that
'he' keeps bringing it up, I'd say it's something else that has 'them' worried...as it should.

this is what I mean't you're a goner,you think I'd martyr you...hehehehe,that's how you think,idiot,no,a living permanenet death...I destroyed every credible shred you ever had or beLIEved you had.

This is what I am had to say,the truth...you're a disgusting spiteful shitbag of a person Suzy Ryan...if I get a chance,I'll f*ck you over in court
...Alison won't even show Ozpixie your stuff and I don't blame her,Ozpixie to me was like an Aussie Antiem,a very nice young lady,but Antiem shocked me with her strengths,I always thought Ozpixie was a little softy,like Curtain Cat,very lovely girls...You spiteful stale withered shitbag of a woman,I HATE you properly now...and have no shame in how I treat you,exactly how I treat demons,what I say to them,made them weep...you I will break...I am an old demon in transition,anything that tries stopping me in future,I'll swat,as I do to roaches...

the only thing being threatened is what little credibilty you think you had...call the police,go on,dare you,send your bald headed mate up,I'm in pretty good shape compared to yesterday.F*CK YOU!!!

sucked in...you make me ill...


True Lilly,puts her foot in it:

Mind you, as 'Billy Ruben & Ciggy' thought it funny at the time of 'that conversation',
that I should ask them to stop spamming my thread with 'their' sick 'fishing', and that
'he' keeps bringing it up, I'd say it's something else that has 'them' worried...as it should.

Thankyou Suzy,that's exactly what I said,spam a True Lilly shitbox thread to make it interesting and you get painted as a child molester...exactly what I've been saying.

The only disappointing aspect,is you're proving me dead-on with no effort needed,this is all to easy...


THIS SUPER-SPAM CAN BE ALOT OF FUN AND ANNOYANCE,THANKYOU TRUE LILLY,FOR INTIATING ME IN THE SCHOOL OF SECRET ARTS...

Billy Ruben wrote:yeah,we remember the car-bombing,you lied and bullshitted about that one too...and sent us a pic of some woman walking a dog as proof,yeah,credible honest god fearing suzy fuckwit ryan...

Billy Ruben wrote:NOW THAT YOU SLYLY ADMIT YOU'RE TORTURING THOSE CATS IN YOUR YARD,LIKE I ALWAYS SUSPECT A PATHETIC SLAG LIKE YOU TO DO,JUST TO UPSET ME,WELL F*CK YOU SUZY RYAN,A CAT'S LIFE IS WORTH MORE THAN A 1000 OF YOURS,I DON'T CARE WHO SEES THIS OR DISGUSTED WITH ME OR EVEN LAW ENFORCEMENT,BUT I SWEAR,I'LL CATCH UP WITH YOU AND TEACH YOU WHAT PAIN IS...I SPENT 4 HOURS ON THE NET,LAST NIGHT USING THE WHITE PAGES,BITCH LIKE YOU DON'T HAVE A REGISTERED ADDRESS ON A NORMAL PHONE LINE,SO YEAH,I' NOT TAKING YOUR SHIT THIS TIME...FUCKING DIE BITCH...

GINGER AND WHITE CATS I LOVE AND ADORE,I WAS LAST YEAR,GOING TO DRIVE THERE JUST TO TAKE ONE OR TWO OFF YOUR HANDS...BUT F*CK YOU...YOU DEAD TO ME...

I might just start hunting around for what I really believe,you've been lying about money and more than one occassion try to extort or will it away from people.

YOU SEE TRUE LILLY,YOU'RE SO LUCKY,TINTIN IS SUCH A GENTLEMAN WITH INTEGRITY AND WOULD'NT WASTE HIS TIME ARGUING WITH A SCHIZOID LIKE YOU,SULLYING HIS NAME TO DEFEND AGAINST YOUR LIES AND ACCUSATIONS...OTHERWISE,I'D UTILIZE EVERYTHING IN MY POWER TO BREAK YOU.NO HOLDS BARRED.MY NAME IS MUD LONG AGO,SO DO YOU THINK I CARE HOW I LOOK,NO....BUT MUCH MORE INTERESTING THAN YOU WILL EVER BE,CAUSE YOU DON'T KNOW HOW TO BE A NORMAL PERSON.NOTICE KABONG AND I HAVE A GOOD TIME IN THAT WOODSTOCK THREAD AND YOU COME ALONG,SEE,THERE'S NOTHING TO YOU BUT MINDLESS LIES AND DRIVEL....HAHAHAHAHAHA,I STILL HAVE MY FAMILY AFTER REAL TRIALS MADAM,I DO MORE OF GODS WORK THAN YOU'LL EVER COMPREHEND,YOU'RE NOTHING...BUT A MORONIC SCHIZOID AND A DANGEROUS ONE...
I FIND THE UNHIVED MIND INTERESTING,THANKS TO SOD LEAVING THAT LINK,IT SHOWS A PSYCHOLOGICAL TIME-LINE FOR THIS FRUITBAT,SUZY RYAN/TRUE LILLY,AND OF COURSE,THE LACK OF INTEREST IN HER POST,ZERO REPLIES AND TWO OR THREE DOZEN READS OVER 5 YEARS,SO YEAH,VERY TELLING,THAT'S WHY SHE BAITS AND LIES EVERYBODY,CAUSE,AS IN HER REAL LIFE,EVERYONE INCLUDING HER FAMILY ABANDONED HER,CAUSE THEY COULD'NT TAKE THE HURT AND PAIN SHE CAUSED THEM,OVER THIS LOVE FOR DEMONS,THAT SHE THINKS IS GOD.SUZY,YOU HAVE TO HAVE A LOVING,SPIRITUAL PSYCHIC SIDE,TO COMMUNICATE WITH HIGHER REALMS,YOU'RE A BOTTOM FEEDER...YOU'RE TALKING SHIT,SCHIZO OR POSSESSED...

BUT ANYWAY,SOD GIVES HER CREDIT AS UNBENDING,I SAY,STUPID AND STUBBORN,WHICH COST HER THE MOST IMPORTANT THINGS IN LIFE,HER LOVING FAMILY,THAT SHE LOST,THANK GOD THE HUSBAND WAS ABLE TO HOLD THE KIDS TOGETHER...THAT IS ALL FOR NOW...
JEALOUSY OF TINTIN'S SUCCESS AND INTEGRITY,NOW HE HAS REAL FRIENDS AND FOLLOWERS AND A NICE GERMAN GIRL CALLED CORI BY HIS SIDE,HE'S A SUCCESS AS HE WORKED HARD FOR HIS ORIGINAL POINT OF VIEW...I COMMEND HIM AND RECOMMEND YOU READING HIS WORKS,HE MUST BE GOOD,TO BE HARRASSED BY THIS STUPID WOMAN WHO LOST HER OWN KIDS IN THIS BITTER JEALOUS ONE WOMAN WAR

Billy Ruben wrote:Ya know True Lilly,after what you said today about this being my version of Tintin's thread,I realised,not just what you did to your own family,but you are that stupid,to believe this was some genuine attempt at re-interpretting the news...it's not,it's a pisstake out of you,for ripping off what Craig Oxley's Forum was in honour of,the True Fallen,the True Speakers of conspiracy,and you stole that credence,and invented a story about car-bombings and being beaten up,so you could feel like one of them and con yourself into believing you're legit.See,you're a liar,but not a good one.

I know you hold information on that PC more than 5 years old,somewhere,you would have evidence and would've used it if real...you have'nt and remain,one of the all-time frauds in Conspiracy Land and not to be trusted.

Gee, OVER 17 hours old,
and with ALL 'Those'
AUSTRALIAN MODERATORS
and AUSTRALIAN MEMBERS
at DAVID ICKE OFFICIAL FORUMS...
...STILL, NO ONE (DARE? )
POST THIS NEWS, FULL OF
the BLOODY, GORY stuff that 'they'
USUALLY LOVE TO LAUGH ABOUT...
...when it HAPPENS TO 'their' TARGETS

And the idiot is still texting me with more cow manure
that further OUTS 'their' FILTHY FILTH as FILTH......TO,
those 'cleaning them up'... ...yes 'Jason/Billy/and The Mob',
I do THINK, and I do think 'you' have, "given a shit", right down
the legs 'you' still have, unlike
other's who 'bought' 'your' SATANIC RELIGIONS ,
who may not be that happy with what 'you MOB' PREACH,
anymore...

Two critically injured
in chemical blast at Cannons Creek
Angus Thompson, Jessica Craven
From:Herald Sun
August 22, 2011 12:00AM
17 comments

RELATED COVERAGE:
Cyprus Naval Base Blast
NEWS.com.au, 12 Jul 2011


Two men were seriously injured in the explosion. Picture: Tess Follett Herald Sun
< Prev1 of 3Next >UPDATE 12pm:
TWO men critically injured
in a backyard explosion
in Cannons Creek last night
were making a home-made explosive,
police say.
Neighbours felt shockwaves as the blast ripped through the area
about 11pm, with one of the men losing both of his legs in the accident.
The blast happened at a gathering of family and friends where the men in
their 20s were mixing commonly bought chemicals in a metal tin, with up
to 12 others standing back.
When asked if the explosion was caused by an amateur bomb,
Arson Squad Senior Detective Cameron Lunny said:
"I'd call it an improvised explosive device".
"It's been likened to a huge thunder clap from what I understand," he said.
He said the men were just experimenting with the chemicals, which the Herald Sun has chosen not to name, and that nothing sinister was at play.

Related Coverage

In Pictures:
Injured men airlifted from backyard explosion
Raid: Fears missing guns in the wrong hands
$200k: Magnifying glass may have started fire
Train station: Police search for missing teen
Victorian duo critical after explosion The Australian, 2 hours ago
Legs blown off in chemical explosion Courier Mail, 4 hours ago
Girl dies in cremation blast Herald Sun, 2 Aug 2011
Cyprus Naval Base Blast NEWS.com.au, 12 Jul 2011
Two men burned in blast at pub Courier Mail, 21 Jun 2011

"They were just having a bit of a muck around I think,'' Sen Det Lunny said.
"There's certainly no indication there was anything apart from experimenting."
The 23-year-old Cannons Creek man and 24-year-old from Pakenham were
standing over the mixture, trying to bury it when it went off.
No-one else was hurt and there was no property damaged,
despite the strength of the blast.
Next door neighbour Arlene Trevethan said the explosion created shockwaves.
"It just shook the house. I came out and I thought it was a fire or something,'' she said.
Another neighbour initially thought an earthquake had struck.
Local Robert Dudgeon said he had heard similar explosions in the past, which police are investigating.
"There were others here over the past month or so,'' he said.
"One night there were three in a row. Whether it's the same source or not, I don't know."
Sen Det Lunny pleaded with others not to experiment with dangerous chemicals.
"We're getting a lot recently of people undertaking mixing of chemicals.
It just goes to show it's not a very smart thing to do and I just plead to
the people thinking about this not to do it - it's very, very dangerous."
He didn't say whether the injured men had sourced the recipe from the internet or whether charges would be laid.
The two men were airlifted to Melbourne hospitals where they remain in critical conditions.
Intensive care paramedic Ben Meadley said the men suffered extensive injuries.
"A 24 year-old man
suffered significant blast-type injures
to his legs and hands,
the type of injury you would more liken to
what you would see in a war situation
rather than in outer suburban Melbourne,'' he said.
"He also had severe airway burns and facial burns.''
The man was put into an induced coma
before he was flown to the Royal Melbourne Hospital in a critical condition.
A 23-year-old man suffered burns to his face and arms and burns to his airway
which can cause swelling and restrict breathin.
Anyone with information should contact Crime Stoppers on 1800 333 000 or visit Crime Stoppers
- with Shelley Hadfield
17 comments on this story


Well, I mentioned somewhere, how OFF 'Jason/Billy Ruben's',
"'intelligence' gathered by idiots", IS, after he rang me, again,
to mention 'that' thread of his(=add to his threats to my person,
because he knows he's on ignore and is obsessed with trying to
scare me), but it's been over half a day since he promised to
"BURY=SPAM OVER" my latest posts, and, well since then,
someone in Melbourne has BLOWN HIS LEGS OFF... another
of 'their' Very Unfortunate 'mates' ...

...and 'certain' 'nice' GAME PLAYING people
still complain AT OTHER people,
about my choice of friends (it's a VERY small selection),
Only to KEEP THEM TRAPPED AMONG Such,
DANGEROUSLY EXPLOSIVE 'mates' ...

Critically injured men 'were making an IED'

Angus Thompson, Jessica Craven
UPDATE 12pm:
TWO men critically injured
in a backyard explosion in Cannons Creek
were making a home-made explosive,
police say.

true lilly wrote:So cori=wants 99.9% of humans dead,
which of my enemies in the real world, are
you supporting?

Those who say 'they' "channel jeesuss",
or those who come straight out and admit
that 'the lord's prayer' they 'raised' their kids by,
was 'the lord's prayer'
straight out of The Satanic Bible.

And now it seems 'Jason'
has lost the ability to read at all,
as well as comprehend.

Maybe I'll just have to forward all his texts
to all 'those' 'respected' people
he is so overtly, so publicly,
demonstrating his supported association with,
in 'their' mutual pushing of the same
(not so secret anymore), satanic agenda,
and let 'them' sort 'their' own yapping dog.

And so what if some among them,
are, actually worthy of respect,
or just haven't had their cover blown yet;
surely they are entitled
to know the public and private character of
those who Publicly claim to privately
Share a Satanic Association with
those who claim to be
'Christian' Business People.

Listen to your masters,
'Jason'/'Billy Ruben', and,
"SHUT THE HELL UP,
about Australia!"

David Icke Australian Tour - Completely Sold Out!!!
by Billy Ruben

ahh, yes, but to WHOM....

...and, what and whom

will they be watching for...

11:46AM Monday Aug 22, 2011

Today's News



Miracle at The Gap

The notorious cliffs can be a place of tragedy.

So how did Nellie Bishop survive
after stepping off the ledge?

It can be a place of tragedy but
The Gap has witnessed miracles, too.

Miracle at The Gap:
the day Nellie tried to end it
and came out alive

Author and Herald writer Peter FitzSimons
says this story - originally published in
this month's issue of the(sydney)magazine
- has generated an extraordinary reaction from Sydneysiders.
For those of you who missed it,
we thought we'd run it again.
But first, here's what FitzSimons says:

It is one of those things. Sometimes you write
something that seems to touch a chord with readers, and in 25 years of
writing for the SMH, I don't think I have ever had a greater, nor more
poignant response than this piece. All of us have been touched by the
subject of suicide in some measure, and my best hope is that this story
might give hope to those who contemplate it. And I am quite serious, by
the way, about there being a need to have a plaque at the Gap, at the
spot Nellie jumped, telling something of her story.
... It is a bright,
beautiful Tuesday afternoon,
November 13, 1923....

Read the whole thing at:
http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/miracle-at-the-gap-the-day-nellie-tried-to-end-it-and-came-out-alive-20110819-1j1m0.html

But, isn't it interesting, to more than only me,
that this VERY OLD NEWS Report, that's also
an Old Magazine Story, is REPEATED AGAIN as
The First/Main/Lead NEWS/IMAGE Story in
TODAY'S SYDNEY MORNING HERALD... ...

...ALONG with THIS VERY OLD NEWS,
ALSO getting a RE-RUN TODAY on SBS News...
...remember, they have long controlled the
"PUBLIC RELEASE" Dates And TIMING of
IMPORTANT, RELATED, Scientific Discoveries...


Oldest fossil found in WA: scientists

22 August 2011 | 03:03:04 AM | Source: AAP

Scientists in Western Australia have uncovered fossils
which they say are the oldest evidence of life on earth.

A team of researchers from the University of WA
and Britain's Oxford University say they have proof
that the microscopic fossils, found at Strelley Pool
near Port Headland, are more than 3.4 billion years old.

The sulphur-based bacteria was found well preserved
between quartz sand grains in prehistoric sedimentary rocks,
Oxford University's Professor Martin Brasier said.

"We can be very sure about the age (of the fossils)
as the rocks were formed between two volcanic successions
that narrow the possible age down to a few tens of millions of years,"
he said in a statement.

The fossils are very clearly preserved, showing precise
cell-like structures all of a similar size, the research team said.

"At last we have good solid evidence
for life over 3.4 billion years ago.
It confirms there were bacteria
at this time, living without oxygen,"
Prof Brasier said.

"Such bacteria are still common today.
Sulphur bacteria are found in
smelly ditches, soil, hot springs, hydrothermal
vents -
anywhere where there's little free oxygen
and they can live off organic matter."

In recent years new scientific benchmarks have
been introduced that must be satisfied by researchers
before claims can be made about the age of fossils.
The West Australian fossils pass crucial tests including that
the forms seen in the rocks are biological and have not occurred
through some mineralisation process, Prof Brasier said.

"We're now making detailed comparisons with all other early microfossils,
and we're very optimistic for future finds," he said.
"The work also has implications for looking for life on other planets,
giving an indication of what evidence for such life might look like."

http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/1580480/Oldest-fossil-found-in-WA:-scientists

( ...'they' say...but MEAN:
IT'S SOLID EVIDENCE WE CAN TRUST
WHAT GOD TOLD US,
ABOUT "THE BEGINNING",
FROM THE BEGINNING ...
and, HOW IT WILL ALL PAN OUT!)

Oldest vertebrate fossil found in Australia,
scientists say
Thursday, 23 October 2003


Our oldest ancestor?
560 million year old 'tadpole'
found in South Australia
(South Australian Museum)
http://www.abc.net.au/science/news/ancient/AncientRepublish_973390.htm

Oh and there is so much more of this sort of news,
that sings the truth of God's Word, scattered, planted,
buried, all over the place, for those who do care to,
SEARCH WITH THEIR WHOLE HEART, MIND and STRENGTH.



It's HYPNOSIS, that all!

Specialise: Candida Balancing, Emotional,
Mercury/Heavy Metal Elimination,
Pain Release, Sabotage Clearing,
Spiritual, Sports/Stretching, Vision Improvement,
TMJ, Learning Problems
Trained in: Psychology, Flower Essence Therapy, Counselling, Life Coaching

Bremen, Germany
http://www.kinergetics.com.au/KinShop.asp?KinCoursePage=2
It's HYPNOSIS, that all!

true lilly wrote:So cori=wants 99.9% of humans dead,
which of my enemies in the real world, are
you supporting?

Those who say 'they' "channel jeesuss",
or those who come straight out and admit
that 'the lord's prayer' they 'raised' their kids by,
was 'the lord's prayer'
straight out of The Satanic Bible.

And now it seems 'Jason'
has lost the ability to read at all,
as well as comprehend.

Maybe I'll just have to forward all his texts
to all 'those' 'respected' people
he is so overtly, so publicly,
demonstrating his supported association with,
in 'their' mutual pushing of the same
(not so secret anymore), satanic agenda,
and let 'them' sort 'their' own yapping dog.

And so what if some among them,
are, actually worthy of respect,
or just haven't had their cover blown yet;
surely they are entitled
to know the public and private character of
those who Publicly claim to privately
Share a Satanic Association with
those who claim to be
'Christian' Business People.

And for how many years
have I warned that my enemies
are also enemies of Australia
and Every Living Soul who
DOESN'T HATE THE CREATOR OF LIFE...
...Too BLOODY Many!

RELATED COVERAGE:
Cyprus Naval Base Blast
NEWS.com.au, 12 Jul 2011

...and, it's ALL THERE,
FREELY AVAILABLE TO ANYONE
who cares to put GOD'S WORD and
WHAT IS REAL IN THIS REAL WORLD,
ABOVE what GOD'S ENEMIES PREACH.

true lilly wrote:

and that was only a tiny sample of the countless examples
of why the wise, keep, The First Commandment, First and Last

hey suzi/not so tru lilly, I see you've made a new fan/reader.

what you know about YHWHs Commandments you could fit in a thimble and have lots of room left over. Your new fan says it well.

Your dog don't hunt. never did. never will.

One effect of an Alphabetic based Monotheism is the brain is using a new abstract, linear, sequential, and reductionist means of communication which moves people who learn it and use it into a Left Brain, Masculine Mode, rather then the usual Pictographic, Feminine Right Brain Mode.

The Aleph/Alphabet subliminally coaxes users to be intolerent of other Iconic Systems of Beliefs.

This is illuminated in the Ten Commandments.
As stated before, Judaism is the first religion to be based upon universal literacy, the written word.

When Moses came down from his meet and greet with YHWH on the mountain, the multitude had fashioned an Idol/Golden Calf, this dicombobulated Moses so much he dropped the two stone Tablets Yahweh had written the ten commandments.


Allegorically: In the first confrontation between Ihage and Written Word, both were destroyed.

As the story goes, Moses returned to the Mountain Top and Yahweh provided him with another set. Yahweh also taught Moses the Alephbet.

The 10 Commandments; The first four Commandments are for the Recognition and service/Worship of Yahweh, the remaining six focus on our fellow humans, loving and serving them.

The Commandment to Honour Both Father and Mother elevates and recognizes the importance and status of Women in the Family Group.

Loving your neighbour is not one of the Ten but appears in the Torah/Instruction, Leviticus 19:18.
The last six commandments are not unusual, and found in other Codexes of Laws, The First four Commandments are Unique.
Each one of the four encourages Alphabetic Literacy by rejecting the Right Brains way of 'knowing'.

One effect of a new, abstract, linear, sequential and reductionist means of communication moves people who learn it into a Left Brain, Masculine Mode.

Social Engineering.

The 10 Commandments: The First four concern Recognition/Respect and Service/Worship of Yahweh.

The remaining six are love and respect of fellow humans.

The Ethics they embody are more sophisticated then other contemporary ANE Cultures.

The commandment to honour BOTH Father and Mother signifies the womens important role and in the Family Unit.

Loving Neighbours is in the General Torah/Instruction: Leviticus 19:18

The last six commandments are not unusual, the first four commandments are unique. Each of the first four encourage Alphabetic literacy by rejecting the right brains way of knowing.

The First Commandment:

20:2 I am Yahweh thy Elohim, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.

20:3 Thou shalt have no other elohim before me.

In one fell swoop subserviates all other elohim/gods & goddesses.

Nothing personal, it was business.

The Meta-Message of the First Commandment is that Yahweh is the Master of the Universe, He is self-existant, and all other elohim/gods & goddesses are created beings, subserviant to Him. Psalm 82

Psalm 82

82:1 Yahweh standeth in the congregation of El; he judgeth among the elohim.

82:2 How long will ye judge unjustly, and accept the persons of the wicked? Selah.

82:3 Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy.

82:4 Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked.

82:5 They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course.

82:6 I have said, Ye are elohim; and all of you are children of the most High.

82:7 But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.

82:8 Arise, O Yahweh, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations.

All of Yahwehs Titles are masculine.

The First Commandment is a radical break with the Hebrews past environment. Moses and the Hebrews had left Egypt which was Polytheistic, alot of gods and goddesses worship.

Yahweh declares there is no worship of other gods or goddesses. Full Stop.

Perhaps the most radical sentence ever written.

The Second Commandment:

20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:

20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I; Yahweh thy Elohim am a jealous Elohim, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

20:6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

No Graven Images, Icons or Idols, Statues.

Learning to think without Images is indispensable to Alphabetic Literacy. The Power formerly rendered to Images/Pictures is now transferred to the written word.

Make no Graven Images is a ban/restraint on Right Brain Pattern Recognition.

The Third Commandment:

20:7 Thou shalt not take the name of Yahweh thy Elohim in vain; for Yahweh will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.

Do not use Yahwehs Name vainly, with Malintent. Again; Left Brain.

Yahwehs first instruction to adam isto Name all the critters. Through Naming, Adam attains dominion over all the Earth. Naming confers meaning and order, moving Life from Chaos to Order.

To Name is to know, to know is to control. Order out of Chaos.

The Fourth Commandment:

20:8 Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.

20:9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:

20:10 But the seventh day is the Sabbath of thy Elohim: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

20:11 For in six days made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore blessed the Sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Seven Days are not a Natural Break Point in any of Earths Major Natural Rhythmic Cycles-Lunar-Solar, except the Quarter Moon.

This facilitates the learning of Aritmatic.

Leviticus 25:3-10 is about the Jubilee Years, the 50th,

No other ANE culture at that time had instructed the general population to compute complex time periods, this had formerly been the domain of the Priestly Castes.

The Time Commandment lays the foundation for the concept of Justice, a well developed sense of Linear Time is necessary to conceive of Punishment delayed and Rewards postponed.

Non-Literate Cultures are not as pre-occupied with the notion/concept of Justice as the Literate, because they do not conceive of time only as linear.

Non-Literated peeps tend to think of death as a passage to another World, not as a Day in Court.

Alphabets stretch out the sense of Time and make possible the awareness of the possibility of a retribution Time in the distant future.

A Judgements day only occurs in Literate Cultures.

Alphabet Literate Cultures became aware of writing History in a Linear, Chronological sequencing of Events.

The fourth Commandments Mechanical/Sociological ramifications is instructing people to be aware of Passing Time.

This was the advent of the seven day week, and a day off every week.

A day off for ALL Humans, Free and Bond, and ALL Beasts of Burden and the Farmland every seven years isto lay fallow to rejuvinate the enzymes in the ground.

This led to Sundials, waterclocks, Pendulums, Escape Mechanisms, Cogs, Gears, Calenders.

Time is a key function of the Left Brain.

Each of the First Four Commandments trains people in the ability to: Think Abstractly, linearly and sequentially.

Collectively, they produce a Mindset that enhances the use and facility of Alphabetic Literacy.

This Technology welded the small group into a cohesive and coherent Nation/Culture.

Do you realise how you contradict yourself? The First Commandment is a pillar of the Torah/Instruction (which you insult and falsly declare was 'done away with') of YHWH Elohim, and it declares that the Hebrews were in Egypt/Mizraim, which you deny.

Torah means Instruction. YHWH Elohim has provided aLL humankind with His Instruction, who are you to say otherwise?

A lying, false prophet.

You are really a mental case like Billy Rueben has documented.

true lilly wrote:See, people don't bother finding and reading my posts
(in all the places I've been chased from and to), to get off,
on personal attacks against my person, but to see, read, consider
and look into the information I provide, that no one else dare...

Billy Ruben wrote:I was hoping you'd have a laugh Lilly,you get so
much attention,and you're a severely non touch play around type
girl.That picture El Kabong posted definitely was'nt you,I mean,you
describe yourself as a little old lady,...You're only 50-51...Have you
heard of hot milf...No,I spose you have'nt...

Hmmmmmm,or was he
refering to a picture you used as a fund raiser and was pissed off to
find you were'nt the advertised material...?

...oh please, give it up...yes, I still get hit on by men much younger...
no, I don't take up the offers...and..."I" am NOT The Topic...
...THIS IS...

really,you took me for real...you mad little thing.All I can say to this is...and I really mean it literally and from the heart,Champion Breeder,who has watched with great satisfaction and more,the sexual couplings of dogs and horses...












Hope you receive this well,prized dog spunker...

This is in the News today, BBC News, but it's over a month, over 40 years, over 200 years,
and much, much older 'news', that like so much more truly ancient Australian History, 'they',
at
David Icke Official Forums, like the rest of The CONspiracy industry,
dare not, post, let alone, honestly discuss. Because, it is only one of
countless real world proofs, that when God described, ALL the world, ALL
the earth, All peoples, FROM THE BEGINNING, that is what He meant.

6 October 2011
Last updated at 02:18 GMT
Aboriginal Stonehenge:
Stargazing in ancient Australia

By Stephanie Hegarty
BBC World Service

Continue reading the main story

An egg-shaped ring of standing stones in Australia
could prove to be older than Britain's Stonehenge - and it may show that
ancient Aboriginal cultures had a deep understanding of the movements of the stars.

Fifty metres wide and containing more than 100 basalt boulders,
the site of Wurdi Youang in Victoria was noted by European
settlers two centuries ago,
and charted by archaeologists in 1977,
but only now is its purpose being rediscovered.

It is thought the site was built by the Wadda Wurrung people -
the traditional inhabitants of the area. All understanding of the
rocks' significance was lost, however, when traditional language and
practices were banned at the beginning of the 20th Century.

Now a team of archaeologists, astronomers and Aboriginal advisers
is reclaiming that knowledge.

They have discovered that waist-high boulders at the tip of
the egg-shaped point along the ring to the position on the horizon
where the sun sets at the summer and winter solstice - the longest
and shortest day of the year.

“Start Quote
<blockquote>It is interesting to know how far back people were doing astronomy,
if it is 5,000 years old it would predate Stonehenge”
</blockquote> Prof Ray Norris
Astrophysicist


The axis from top to bottom points towards the equinox -
when the length of day equals night.

At Stonehenge, the sun aligns instead with gaps in the stones
on these key dates in the solar calendar.

The probability that layout of Wurdi Youang is a coincidence
is miniscule, argues Ray Norris, a British astrophysicist at Australia's
national science agency, who is leading the investigation.

Prof Norris and his Aboriginal partners used Nasa technology
to measure the position of each rock in relation to the sun, and
to demonstrate the connection with the solstices and equinox.

"It's truly special because
a lot of people don't take account of Aboriginal science,"
says Reg Abrahams, an Aboriginal adviser working with Prof Norris.

Giant emu
As happened with Stonehenge, the discovery could change the
way people view early societies. It is only recently that it has been
demonstrated that Aboriginal societies could count beyond five or six.

"This is the first time we have been able to show that,
as well as being interested in the position of the sun,
they were making astronomical measurements," says Prof Norris,
who is also a faculty member at the School of Indigenous Studies
at Macquarie University in Sydney.


This photo of the emu in the sky by an aboriginal rock carving
was sent to every school in Australia


Other studies by Prof Norris, of Aboriginal songs and stories,
have also indicated a clear understanding of the movements of the sun,
moon and stars.

Indigenous customs vary among groups across Australia, but
one story that appears in many local traditions is
the tale of a great emu that sits in the sky.

The emu, which can be seen in the southern hemisphere during
April and May, is a shape made by the dark patches of the Milky Way.

Its appearance coincides with laying season of the wild emu
and for the storytellers it is a sign to start collecting eggs.

Prompted by historian Hugh Cairns, Prof Norris examined and
photographed an emu-shaped rock carving in Kuring-Gai Chase National
Park, near Sydney, which cleverly mirrors the celestial animal-like shape.
During the southern autumn, the constellation
is positioned above the rock
with the bird shape almost perfectly reflected
by the engraving.

Intellectual leap
Other stories show more complex,
intellectual understanding of the universe.

In the case of the solar eclipse, the Walpiri people in the Northern Territory
tell the story of a sun-woman who pursues a moon-man.
When she catches him the two become husband and wife
together causing a solar eclipse.

The idea that the solar eclipse is caused by the moon moving
in front of the sun is something only widely accepted by western
scientists in the 16th Century.

"This is not about balls of flames going out,
it's about one body moving in front of the other,"
says Prof Norris. "That is a giant intellectual leap."

Since solar eclipses are rare, the survival of this story,
passed down through generations,
also shows a remarkable continuity of learning.

These discoveries play a crucial role in helping
Aboriginal and non-Aboriginal Australians
understand just how intellectually
advanced their ancient society was.

"This discovery has huge significance for understanding the
amazing ability of this culture that is maligned," says Janet Mooney,
head of Indigenous Australian Studies at Sydney University.

"It makes not only me, as an Aboriginal person,
but a lot of Aboriginal people around Australia very proud."

She hopes to be able to tell her students of
an aboriginal site more ancient than Stonehenge.

Continue reading the main story Aboriginal cultures

• Australia's indigenous Aboriginal population make up 470,000 of the country's 21 million population
  
• There are more than 400 separate Aboriginal traditions in Australia but they share many beliefs
  
• All aboriginal cultures believe in the Dreaming, an expression
  for man's relationship to the spiritual natural and moral elements of
  the world
  
• A Dreaming is a story owned by a particular tribe that tells the story of creation
  

Until it is dated however, Wurdi Youang could be anywhere from 200 to 20,000 years old.

Aboriginal stone structures in the region have a vast age
range and are very difficult to date. Many of the smaller rock sites
that have been found, such as shelters and cooking areas, have been
moved over time by natural and human forces.

But given the size of the stones at Wurdi Youang and how
deeply they are entrenched in the ground it is more likely they have
been there for thousands of years, archaeologists say.

Dating requires archaeologists to test the soil under the
rocks to see when it was last exposed to sunlight and the team hope to
be able to do this in the next few months.

But Prof Norris believes he has already proven the real value of the stone circle.

"It is interesting to know how far back people were doing
astronomy, if it is 5,000 years old it would predate Stonehenge," he
says.

"But it is not quite as interesting to my mind as whether the
Aboriginal people were doing real astronomy before British contact.
That really tells us a lot about what kind of culture it is."

Reach for the Stars - Aboriginal Astronomy was produced by Robert Cockburn and broadcast by Discovery for BBC World Service. Listen the radio documentary here
___________________________________________________
Good readers, this was my playground, growing up. It caused me to ask these questions,
about this glorious, truly ancient land's, truly ancient history, even as a child, yet despite
always getting the 'accepted', stock fob off's, 'something' always told
me that's what they were. Simple answers given to a child, as if being a
child made one simple. And so I kept, looking, asking, thinking about
answers given, and why they were given, when obviously,
so many of those 'accepted' answers, contradicted other 'accepted'
answers. Until now at a mature age, having enjoyed an 'interesting'
life, moving around a lot of this country, amongst many cultural and
social groups, from farming to politics, and much in between
and on the fringes, I found that when removing the contradictions,
what we are left with, is, what God described, from the beginning.

true lilly wrote:Another Sign to LOCATE Lands
Described in Holy Scripture...

NO ONE can simply walk up to
"quails" or "pheasants"
and collect more than they can eat,
but in ONE AREA on Earth they CAN, STILL,
gather the most tasty of birds...

Mutton Birds

Aboriginal people still harvest the mutton
birds. Our catch and sales are dependent
on the sustainability of the harvest. Mutton
birds are a delicacy to eat, with a rich oily
flavour unlike any other.


The short-tailed shearwater of Griffiths Island
(Puffinus tenuirostiris - Tasmanian Shearwater)
is commonly called the 'mutton bird'.

Given the name 'mutton bird'
by early settlers of Port Fairy
of its fatty flesh, the shearwater
was hunted as a food and oil source.

Today the shearwater
is totally protected in Victoria.

The journey, of about 15,000 km, passes
New Zealand and Japan
and is completed in only two months.

The return journey follows the coast of
North America to California,
then south-west across the Pacific.
Prevailing winds aid their flight for most of the journey
but on the final leg, from the central Pacific,
the birds battle across south-east winds.

They return to their nesting grounds exhausted...
http://www.port-fairy.com/shearwaters.htm


Ferley Gardner,
Tasmanian Aboriginal Elder...
...One of the highlights of her childhood was
when her family would pack up everything each year
and travel to Big Dog Island or Babel Island
for the mutton bird season.

...COLLECTING BIRDS ON BABEL ISLAND ...
http://www.abc.net.au/gnt/history/Tr...s/s1045602.htm

And all anyone has to do to see it, is get over that patently absurd,
insanely too short, only recently agreed on, "out of Egypt" lie.

true lilly wrote:Australian Aborigines the first astronomers
Posted on September 20, 2010 by Deskarati

Rock engravings at Ngaut Ngaut, South Australia, which are said to
represent lunar cycles. There are many examples like this throughout
Australia which suggest that astronomy is an important part of many
Australian Aboriginal cultures.

An Australian study has uncovered signs that the country’s ancient
Aborigines may have been the world’s first stargazers, pre-dating
Stonehenge and Egypt’s pyramids by thousands of years.

Ray Norris said widespread and detailed knowledge of the stars had
been passed down through the generations by Aborigines, whose history
dates back tens of millennia, in traditional songs and stories.

“We know there’s lots of stories about the sky: songs, legends,
myths,” said Norris, an astronomer for Australia’s science agency, the
Commonwealth Scientific and Research Organisation (CSIRO).

Star-gazing for food

“We wondered how much further does it go than that. It turns out also
people used the sky for navigation, time-keeping, to mark out the
seasons, so it’s very practical.

“People were nomadic so when Pleiades (the Seven Sisters star
cluster) was up they would move to where the nuts and berries are.
Another sign and it would be time to move to the rivers to fish for
barramundi, and so on.”

Norris, who has studied Aboriginal culture and historical accounts by
white settlers, and made several trips to Arnhem Land in Australia’s
remote Outback, said his research also revealed more detailed
astronomical thought.

Figuring out an eclipse

“Clearly some thinker in the past has been sitting down in the bush,
watching an eclipse and trying to figure out how it works,” he said,
giving one example.

“Those thoughts are then encoded in the songs and ceremonies. If you
take a lunar eclipse, the story in Arnhem Land is it’s the Sun Woman and
Moon Man making love, and when they make love the body of one covers
the other.”

Norris is now searching for evidence that would put a date on
Aboriginal astronomy, such as a rock-carving of a meteor strike or
comet.

Establishing a beginning date

He is confident the Aborigines pre-dated European stargazers,
including Britain’s astronomy-linked Stonehenge, which is estimated at
3,100 BC, around the age of the Great Pyramid of Giza.

“We’ve established there is all this astronomy, what I don’t know is
how far back this goes. If it goes back 10,000 or 20,000 years, that
makes (Aborigines) the world’s first astronomers,” he said.

via Australian Aborigines the first astronomers | COSMOS magazine.
___________________________________________________________

The thing is, THEY KNOW IT GOES BACK MUCH FURTHER.
It's just that we need to slowly ease the world into feeling like
they are part of the discovery, rather than feeling like dills.

Oh, and I think it was palomino who first posted this, way back then.



Researchers are confident
the Aborigines pre-dated European stargazers,
including Britain's astronomy-linked Stonehenge.
(AAP)

WANJINA...the tin foil hat brigade only want to see 'spacemen',
in everything...but come on, these are simply, Mighty, Big, Hairy,
White Freckled Skinned, Red Heads...The Tribe of BENJAMIN...
also, Female Wanjina are very rare, as BENJAMIN nearly became
extinct. Sex crazed, immorally, cruelly, unhealthily so, the rest of
The Tribes of Israel banned intermarriage with them, but so that
they didn't die out (God keeping His Promise), they took women
not of Israel, as wives.





Judges - Chapter 21


http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Jdg&c=21&t=KJV#14

And they said ⁵⁵⁹ , [There must be] an inheritance ³⁴²⁵ for them that be escaped ⁶⁴¹³ of Benjamin ¹¹⁴⁴, that a tribe ⁷⁶²⁶ be not destroyed ⁴²²⁹ out of Israel ³⁴⁷⁸.


Howbeit we may ³²⁰¹ not give ⁵⁴¹⁴ them wives ⁸⁰² of our daughters ¹³²³: for the children ¹¹²¹ of Israel ³⁴⁷⁸ have sworn ⁷⁶⁵⁰ , saying ⁵⁵⁹ , Cursed ⁷⁷⁹ [be] he that giveth ⁵⁴¹⁴ a wife ⁸⁰² to Benjamin ¹¹⁴⁴.


Then they said ⁵⁵⁹ , Behold, [there is] a feast ²²⁸² of the LORD ³⁰⁶⁸ in Shiloh ⁷⁸⁸⁷ yearly ^{3117 3117} [in a place] which [is] on the north side ⁶⁸²⁸ of Bethel ¹⁰⁰⁸, on the east side ^{4217 8121} of the highway ⁴⁵⁴⁶ that goeth up ⁵⁹²⁷ from Bethel ¹⁰⁰⁸ to Shechem ⁷⁹²⁷, and on the south ⁵⁰⁴⁵ of Lebonah ³⁸²⁹.


Therefore they commanded ⁶⁶⁸⁰ the children ¹¹²¹ of Benjamin ¹¹⁴⁴, saying ⁵⁵⁹ , Go ³²¹² and lie in wait ⁶⁹³ in the vineyards ³⁷⁵⁴;

And see ⁷²⁰⁰ , and, behold, if the daughters ¹³²³ of Shiloh ⁷⁸⁸⁷ come out ³³¹⁸ to dance ²³⁴² in dances ⁴²⁴⁶, then come ye out ³³¹⁸ of the vineyards ³⁷⁵⁴, and catch ²⁴¹⁴ you every man ³⁷⁶ his wife ⁸⁰² of the daughters ¹³²³ of Shiloh ⁷⁸⁸⁷, and go ¹⁹⁸⁰ to the land ⁷⁷⁶ of Benjamin ¹¹⁴⁴.

And it shall be, when their fathers ¹ or their brethren ²⁵¹ come ⁹³⁵ unto us to complain ⁷³⁷⁸ , that we will say ⁵⁵⁹ unto them, Be favourable ²⁶⁰³ unto them for our sakes: because we reserved ³⁹⁴⁷ not to each man ³⁷⁶ his wife ⁸⁰² in the war ⁴⁴²¹: for ye did not give ⁵⁴¹⁴ unto them at this time ⁶²⁵⁶, [that] ye should be guilty ⁸¹⁶ .


And the children ¹¹²¹ of Benjamin ¹¹⁴⁴ did so ⁶²¹³ , and took ⁵³⁷⁵ [them] wives ⁸⁰², according to their number ⁴⁵⁵⁷, of them that danced ²³⁴² , whom they caught ¹⁴⁹⁷ : and they went ³²¹² and returned ⁷⁷²⁵ unto their inheritance ⁵¹⁵⁹, and repaired ¹¹²⁹ the cities ⁵⁸⁹², and dwelt ³⁴²⁷ in them.


And the children ¹¹²¹ of Israel ³⁴⁷⁸ departed ¹⁹⁸⁰ thence at that time ⁶²⁵⁶, every man ³⁷⁶ to his tribe ⁷⁶²⁶ and to his family ⁴⁹⁴⁰, and they went out ³³¹⁸ from thence every man ³⁷⁶ to his inheritance ⁵¹⁵⁹.


In those days ³¹¹⁷ [there was] no king ⁴⁴²⁸ in Israel ³⁴⁷⁸: every man ³⁷⁶ did ⁶²¹³ [that which was] right ³⁴⁷⁷ in his own eyes ⁵⁸⁶⁹.


_____________________________________________________
Wanjina, Benjamin, Wanjina, Benjamin, Wanjina, Benjamin...

...can't you hear the same name, travel over many ages, and tongues,
and still belong to the same type of people described...



Aboriginal people believe

we have been here "forever".

According to current scientific
theories,
it is thought that Aborigines have
occupied Australia
for over 60,000 years -
and possibly
more than 100,000 years.

true lilly wrote:

PERU...pooped all over anything in Egypt...
...pooped all over Israel...Israel walked...and all that power...
dried up...then...even greater than all that was...everywhere,
all over the Americas...was built in OZ...then...in their human
pride...Israel forgot God...The Source of all that and more...and...
so...OZ was UTTERLY DEVASTATED...and Israel headed north...
and, scattered, mixed and mingled...over all the world...again...
to start re-gathering...some few hundred years ago...Back in...
The Home Land...promised...preserved...in O'Zion...to again...
better than ever...anywhere...anytime...Re-Plant & Re-Build...


Ancient cave paintings in...not OZ...



Ancient cave paintings in Patagonia, southern Argentina



...have a real, close, look...
http://www.zazzle.com.au/world_map_upside_down_postcard-239671036251018558

Yahshua's Kabbalah

http://rabdavis.org/yahshuas%20%20kabbalah.htm

Mark 9: 1 “Yes!” he went on, “I tell you that there are some people standing here who will not experience death until they see the Kingdom Of G-d come in a powerful way!” 2 Six days later, Yahshua took Kefa, Ya‘akov and Yochanan and led them up a high mountain privately. As they watched, he began to change form, 3 and his clothes became dazzlingly white, whiter than anyone in the world could possibly bleach them. 4 Then they saw Eliyahu and Moshe speaking with Yahshua. 5 Kefa said to Yahshua, “It’s good that we’re here, Rabbi! Let’s put up three shelters—one for you, one for Moshe and one for Eliyahu.” 6 (He didn’t know what to say, they were so frightened.) 7 Then a cloud enveloped them; and a voice came out of the cloud, “This is my Son, whom I love. Listen to him!” 8 Suddenly, when they looked around, they no longer saw anyone with them except Yahshua. (Jewish NT)



Those of you who are attending kabbalah class know that Jewish Mysticism, which is known today as Kabbalah is the private instruction of a rabbi to his Talmidim as opposed to Mishnah, which denoted a rabbis' public ministry that his Talmidim were to pass on.



In the foregoing passage, we have the culmination of the Kabbalah of Yahshua and he warns His disciples not to reveal the vision of the Transfiguration until after He is resurrected.



Sha'ul also wrote of Kabbalah when he spoke of the transmigration of his soul in 2 Cor. 12:2-4.



Kabbalah also informs of a technique allowing one to enter into "Paradise," the eternal Garden of Eden adjacent to the Chariot-Throne that is fraught with danger.



In general Kabbalah is about our cleaving to G-d and approaching His Throne. Elijah, Ezekiel, Yahshua and Sha'ul all seem to have been familiar with kabbalistic techniques.

In the reading of the Transfiguration (Matthew 16:28-17:13; Mark 9:1-13; Luke 9:27-36) we have a glimpse into Yahshua's kabbalah. We see Yahshua taking three of His Disciples - Peter, James, and John climbing above the villages, up the slopes of Mount Hermon or Mount Lebanon as Josephus called it in his Antiquities to an ancient site of worship.



On mount Hermon Yahshua here followed the example of Moshe who took three of his followers Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu up Mount Sinai where they ate and drank to celebrate the vision of the G-d of Israel on His sapphire throne (Ex. 24:1-11). But unlike what happened on Moshe's mountain, Yahshua's disciples, covered by a cloud of glory, heard a voice say, " This is my son, the beloved, in whom I take pleasure: hear Him (Matthew 9: and when the cloud passed they found Yahshua without Moshe and Elijah (Mark 9: standing alone as G-d's son. "Divine son" was the same designation Yahshua had heard during His immersion with John the Baptist: now his own disciples saw and heard the truth of Yahshua's own vision. We should note that the Transfiguration does not speak in the later exclusive language of the Christian Trinity that makes Yahshua into the only possible son of G-d. Here we perceive that the same spirit that had animated Elijah and Moshe was present in Yahshua and this spirit could make of whomever it wishes sons of G-d.



In the middle of the vision and hearing the divine voice Kefa (Peter) offers to build three huts (Sukkoth) for Yahshua, Moshe and Eliyahu. In Marks' gospel we see this presented as an inept suggestion born out of fear (Mark 9:5-6).



A better translation of verse 6 would be that "For he (Peter) did not know how he should respond, because they were terrified" inferring that Peter's suggestion was an inane remark because of a loss for words.



Frequently, during the formation of the Gospels and their many redactions the significance of Judaic symbolism was forgotten and blame fell on the alleged ignorance of the apostles, rather than the amnesia and ignorance of the Church. In this case the Sukkot Kefa refers to reflect both the great feast that was coming and the realization that great prophets like Moshe, Eliyahu, and Yahshua brought the Spirit of G-d to abide in Israel. Sukkot or booths symbolizes the providence of G-d in His provision for us. Kefa's appreciation of the experience he had witnessed and his desire to build shelters is an indication that he, James and John had indeed joined Yahshua in the vision of the Chariot first reported in the translation of Eliyahu as witnessed by Elisha in, 2 Kings 2:11 and later Ezekiel's Chariot-Throne in his book.



The Mishnah in Chagigah 2:1 teaches that the Chariot called Merkavah in Hebrew should not be introduced to one person alone because the vision of the divine Throne was laden with danger. Some initiates died, some went mad, and still others fell prey to polytheism, by meditating on the Throne imprudently, and it was His genius as a rabbi that Yahshua led his disciples into a vision of the Chariot in a way that mobilized and safely transformed them.



The Transfiguration represents the mature development of Rabbi Yahshua's kabbalah as a man, tempted, in all the ways of humanity, for He was not only able to translate his own vision, but to initiate others into its richness. They now saw Him as a living presence in the pantheon of Israel's patriarchs and prophets around G-d's throne. Their rabbi, favored by the thundering voice of G-d (John 12:28, 29), stood at the vortex of creation's source. Yahshua had given to them and gives to us, no matter the cost in hardships, deprivation and struggles the reward of intimacy with the divine presence.



Yahshua's esoteric teaching as evidenced by the Scriptures had grown in advance of His public teaching, and that is a reversal of the pattern we would expect from the Mishnah and the Talmud. Kabbalah had an early prominent place in His teaching. Through the Transfiguration we see that G-d has exalted His son and this revealing of Yahshua's entrance into the heavenly court forever more became a defining force in our consciousness of G-d in our culture.



The vision on Mount Hermon had shown that Yahshua was G-d's son and this exerted a powerful temptation onto His disciples. They would counsel: Who would deny such a man the power to rule as the King of Israel? Yahshua to was susceptible to the same temptation. Yet, Yahshua who is the faithful son of G-d and being pressed by HaSatan day and night to being disloyal to G-d resisted it, and "The Lord's Prayer" was completed in the dark night of what has become known as the Temptation:



My Father,

Your name will be sanctified, your Kingdom will come: Give me today the bread that is coming, and release me my debts-not bring me to the test!



The disciples as were the people of Israel confused G-d's Kingdom with their own national power, especially as Yahshua initiated then into the variations of His Kabbalah after the vision on Mt. Hermon.



Yahshua had healed the sick, raised the dead, stilled storms, walked on water and ultimately had appeared on Mt. Hermon with Eliyahu and Moshe. Why should He not break the rule of Rome?



His disciples even argued among themselves as to who should be the greatest next to Yahshua in the coming Kingdom on earth. Yahshua had to define His movement for by force they might make Him King.



In the Targum of Zechariah, chapter 14 communicates Yahshua's mission and focus to Him. It provided the formula and ritual program, and the key that would unlock the magic door through which the transformation of the Kingdom of G-d would flow. The Targum predicts that G-d's Kingdom will be manifested over the entire earth when the offerings of Sukkoth are presented both by Israelites and Gentiles at the Temple. It further predicts that these worshippers will prepare and offer their sacrifices themselves, in the Galilean manner without the intervention of middlemen. Significantly, the last words of the book promise that, "there shall never again be a trader in the sanctuary of the Lord of Hosts at that time" (Zachariah 14:21). Yahshua's desire to realize the Targum prophecy brought on the dramatic confrontation that he would shortly provoke in the Temple. Zechariah's vision of the ultimate Sukkoth restored the land to Israel and the Temple to the sacrifice G-d desired, The Romans would be banished, and Zion's gate opened to all who would join with Israel there in worship (Targum Zechariah 14:9). Most Christians do not know that during the millennium there will be a return to animal sacrifice in the Temple. Zechariah 14 vv.16-21, 'And it shall come to pass that everyone that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the king, the Lord of Hosts, and to keep the feast of the tabernacles... Yea every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto the Lord of Hosts; and all that sacrifice shall come and take of them, and seethe therein; and in that day shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the Lord of Hosts'. And again perhaps the clearest and most detailed references to the same are in the closing chapters of Ezekiel. The seven chapters Ezekiel 40-46 - give us a description of the millennial temple with its dimensions and its practices, including the sacrifices and offerings, which will take place.



All Yahshua's actions were informed by Judaism and the tenets of its faith, and that is lost or even considered anathema to most professed believers, because they have been taught, erroneously, that His advent signaled a new path to redemption, a path that leads to Hellenistic Christianity, and it's opposition to Judaism. Yet, any unbiased, informed believer can realize through Yahshua's kabbalah and His mission that He was not only our paschal lamb to provide reconciliation unto HaShem, but he was also to usher in the Future Kingdom of G-d, established within the framework and parameters of a Messianic Judaism that upholds the practice of Torah. And not through another religion that has lost its Jewish roots, namely Christianity.

Amein

Yep, as you will see below, there are an awful lot of high stakes players
in the media manipulation and other industries, invested in DENYING ACCESS
to EDIFYING, HONEST Information, and destroying those who care to freely
share it, SO THAT 'They' CON Australians into BETRAYING AUSTRALIA.

What The HELL is "FOUNDATION"?
I really can't be bothered re-explaining what all this means,
but I'm sure readers who have followed the exchanges between me
and my attackers, like 'tintin' and 'David Icke's' 'australian' members,
will notice "FOUNDATION" has more in common with 'tintin/them'
than 'their' tired old tactic of DENYING ACCESS,
to INDEPENDENT THINKERS/RESEARCHERS who have NOT BEEN
BOUGHT OFF, TO PEDDLE MORE TRAITOROUS PROPAGANDA.

Outgoing SA Premier Mike Rann says others can judge
by:By Tim Dornin
From:AAP
October 20, 2011 2:21PM

OUTGOING South Australian Premier Mike Rann says it's up to others to judge him.

But the man often dubbed "media Mike" is not shy about listing his government's achievements since coming to office in 2002.

By any measure it's a reasonably impressive list.

In recent weeks the premier has signed-off on the banning of mining in the
environmentally-sensitive Arkaroola Sanctuary in the Flinders Ranges
and also the deal to have BHP Billiton spend $30 billion expanding the
Olympic Dam copper and uranium mine.

Over the past decade it has
also increased spending on health and education, opening new schools and
employing more doctors and nurses.

It has also built a desalination plant, started construction on a new central hospital and
approved the major redevelopment of Adelaide Oval.

Related Coverage

Rann bids farewell as Premier Adelaide Now, 1 hour ago

SA poised for greatness, says Rann
Foundation, 1 hour ago
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Editorial: Farewell, Premier Rann Adelaide Now, 48 minutes ago

Rann says deputy a victim of 'power play'
Foundation, 2 days ago
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Mike Rann: The man who 'saved' Arkaroola Adelaide Now, 4 days ago

In defence, SA secured the contracts to build the Navy's next fleet of submarines and also the air warfare destroyers.

The Government has also championed renewable energy, with SA now generating
more than half the nation's wind power and becoming a leader in solar
power.

But there's been issues too.

Mr Rann has been forced to deny an affair with a former parliamentary waitress and
watched on as his deputy and long-serving treasurer Kevin Foley was twice assaulted.

A Labor MP was also charged with child pornography offences and was suspended
from the ALP while there have also been a simmering row with the union movement over cuts to public sector jobs and conditions.

That
row has characterised the sometimes wider criticism levelled at Mr Rann
and his government, that they don't always listen to the people or
properly consult before
finalising projects or policies.

In a balancing act, the wins probably outweigh the losses, but as Mr Rann suggests,
the final say will be up to others.

"Overall I think that one day people will probably say all of these things were
about a state that's more confident about itself, more outward looking,"
he says.

"That we're a destination again rather than a beloved home town that people
had to leave to find opportunities elsewhere."

More personally, Mr Rann says being the SA Premier has been the
"greatest privilege of my life".

"I wanted to leave the state in better shape than I found it, and I wanted
to leave the party in better shape than when I took over," he says.

"I think on both of those there's big tick."

Mr Rann is expected to officially stand down as premier tomorrow.

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le sabrage wrote:Yahshua's Kabbalah

http://rabdavis.org/yahshuas%20%20kabbalah.htm

Mark 9: 1 “Yes!” he went on, “I tell you that there are some people standing here who will not experience death until they see the Kingdom Of G-d come in a powerful way!” 2 Six days later, Yahshua took Kefa, Ya‘akov and Yochanan and led them up a high mountain privately. As they watched, he began to change form, 3 and his clothes became dazzlingly white, whiter than anyone in the world could possibly bleach them. 4 Then they saw Eliyahu and Moshe speaking with Yahshua. 5 Kefa said to Yahshua, “It’s good that we’re here, Rabbi! Let’s put up three shelters—one for you, one for Moshe and one for Eliyahu.” 6 (He didn’t know what to say, they were so frightened.) 7 Then a cloud enveloped them; and a voice came out of the cloud, “This is my Son, whom I love. Listen to him!” 8 Suddenly, when they looked around, they no longer saw anyone with them except Yahshua. (Jewish NT)



Those of you who are attending kabbalah class know that Jewish Mysticism, which is known today as Kabbalah is the private instruction of a rabbi to his Talmidim as opposed to Mishnah, which denoted a rabbis' public ministry that his Talmidim were to pass on.



In the foregoing passage, we have the culmination of the Kabbalah of Yahshua and he warns His disciples not to reveal the vision of the Transfiguration until after He is resurrected.



Sha'ul also wrote of Kabbalah when he spoke of the transmigration of his soul in 2 Cor. 12:2-4.



Kabbalah also informs of a technique allowing one to enter into "Paradise," the eternal Garden of Eden adjacent to the Chariot-Throne that is fraught with danger.



In general Kabbalah is about our cleaving to G-d and approaching His Throne. Elijah, Ezekiel, Yahshua and Sha'ul all seem to have been familiar with kabbalistic techniques.

In the reading of the Transfiguration (Matthew 16:28-17:13; Mark 9:1-13; Luke 9:27-36) we have a glimpse into Yahshua's kabbalah. We see Yahshua taking three of His Disciples - Peter, James, and John climbing above the villages, up the slopes of Mount Hermon or Mount Lebanon as Josephus called it in his Antiquities to an ancient site of worship.



On mount Hermon Yahshua here followed the example of Moshe who took three of his followers Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu up Mount Sinai where they ate and drank to celebrate the vision of the G-d of Israel on His sapphire throne (Ex. 24:1-11). But unlike what happened on Moshe's mountain, Yahshua's disciples, covered by a cloud of glory, heard a voice say, " This is my son, the beloved, in whom I take pleasure: hear Him (Matthew 9: and when the cloud passed they found Yahshua without Moshe and Elijah (Mark 9: standing alone as G-d's son. "Divine son" was the same designation Yahshua had heard during His immersion with John the Baptist: now his own disciples saw and heard the truth of Yahshua's own vision. We should note that the Transfiguration does not speak in the later exclusive language of the Christian Trinity that makes Yahshua into the only possible son of G-d. Here we perceive that the same spirit that had animated Elijah and Moshe was present in Yahshua and this spirit could make of whomever it wishes sons of G-d.



In the middle of the vision and hearing the divine voice Kefa (Peter) offers to build three huts (Sukkoth) for Yahshua, Moshe and Eliyahu. In Marks' gospel we see this presented as an inept suggestion born out of fear (Mark 9:5-6).



A better translation of verse 6 would be that "For he (Peter) did not know how he should respond, because they were terrified" inferring that Peter's suggestion was an inane remark because of a loss for words.



Frequently, during the formation of the Gospels and their many redactions the significance of Judaic symbolism was forgotten and blame fell on the alleged ignorance of the apostles, rather than the amnesia and ignorance of the Church. In this case the Sukkot Kefa refers to reflect both the great feast that was coming and the realization that great prophets like Moshe, Eliyahu, and Yahshua brought the Spirit of G-d to abide in Israel. Sukkot or booths symbolizes the providence of G-d in His provision for us. Kefa's appreciation of the experience he had witnessed and his desire to build shelters is an indication that he, James and John had indeed joined Yahshua in the vision of the Chariot first reported in the translation of Eliyahu as witnessed by Elisha in, 2 Kings 2:11 and later Ezekiel's Chariot-Throne in his book.



The Mishnah in Chagigah 2:1 teaches that the Chariot called Merkavah in Hebrew should not be introduced to one person alone because the vision of the divine Throne was laden with danger. Some initiates died, some went mad, and still others fell prey to polytheism, by meditating on the Throne imprudently, and it was His genius as a rabbi that Yahshua led his disciples into a vision of the Chariot in a way that mobilized and safely transformed them.



The Transfiguration represents the mature development of Rabbi Yahshua's kabbalah as a man, tempted, in all the ways of humanity, for He was not only able to translate his own vision, but to initiate others into its richness. They now saw Him as a living presence in the pantheon of Israel's patriarchs and prophets around G-d's throne. Their rabbi, favored by the thundering voice of G-d (John 12:28, 29), stood at the vortex of creation's source. Yahshua had given to them and gives to us, no matter the cost in hardships, deprivation and struggles the reward of intimacy with the divine presence.



Yahshua's esoteric teaching as evidenced by the Scriptures had grown in advance of His public teaching, and that is a reversal of the pattern we would expect from the Mishnah and the Talmud. Kabbalah had an early prominent place in His teaching. Through the Transfiguration we see that G-d has exalted His son and this revealing of Yahshua's entrance into the heavenly court forever more became a defining force in our consciousness of G-d in our culture.



The vision on Mount Hermon had shown that Yahshua was G-d's son and this exerted a powerful temptation onto His disciples. They would counsel: Who would deny such a man the power to rule as the King of Israel? Yahshua to was susceptible to the same temptation. Yet, Yahshua who is the faithful son of G-d and being pressed by HaSatan day and night to being disloyal to G-d resisted it, and "The Lord's Prayer" was completed in the dark night of what has become known as the Temptation:



My Father,

Your name will be sanctified, your Kingdom will come: Give me today the bread that is coming, and release me my debts-not bring me to the test!



The disciples as were the people of Israel confused G-d's Kingdom with their own national power, especially as Yahshua initiated then into the variations of His Kabbalah after the vision on Mt. Hermon.



Yahshua had healed the sick, raised the dead, stilled storms, walked on water and ultimately had appeared on Mt. Hermon with Eliyahu and Moshe. Why should He not break the rule of Rome?



His disciples even argued among themselves as to who should be the greatest next to Yahshua in the coming Kingdom on earth. Yahshua had to define His movement for by force they might make Him King.



In the Targum of Zechariah, chapter 14 communicates Yahshua's mission and focus to Him. It provided the formula and ritual program, and the key that would unlock the magic door through which the transformation of the Kingdom of G-d would flow. The Targum predicts that G-d's Kingdom will be manifested over the entire earth when the offerings of Sukkoth are presented both by Israelites and Gentiles at the Temple. It further predicts that these worshippers will prepare and offer their sacrifices themselves, in the Galilean manner without the intervention of middlemen. Significantly, the last words of the book promise that, "there shall never again be a trader in the sanctuary of the Lord of Hosts at that time" (Zachariah 14:21). Yahshua's desire to realize the Targum prophecy brought on the dramatic confrontation that he would shortly provoke in the Temple. Zechariah's vision of the ultimate Sukkoth restored the land to Israel and the Temple to the sacrifice G-d desired, The Romans would be banished, and Zion's gate opened to all who would join with Israel there in worship (Targum Zechariah 14:9). Most Christians do not know that during the millennium there will be a return to animal sacrifice in the Temple. Zechariah 14 vv.16-21, 'And it shall come to pass that everyone that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the king, the Lord of Hosts, and to keep the feast of the tabernacles... Yea every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto the Lord of Hosts; and all that sacrifice shall come and take of them, and seethe therein; and in that day shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the Lord of Hosts'. And again perhaps the clearest and most detailed references to the same are in the closing chapters of Ezekiel. The seven chapters Ezekiel 40-46 - give us a description of the millennial temple with its dimensions and its practices, including the sacrifices and offerings, which will take place.



All Yahshua's actions were informed by Judaism and the tenets of its faith, and that is lost or even considered anathema to most professed believers, because they have been taught, erroneously, that His advent signaled a new path to redemption, a path that leads to Hellenistic Christianity, and it's opposition to Judaism. Yet, any unbiased, informed believer can realize through Yahshua's kabbalah and His mission that He was not only our paschal lamb to provide reconciliation unto HaShem, but he was also to usher in the Future Kingdom of G-d, established within the framework and parameters of a Messianic Judaism that upholds the practice of Torah. And not through another religion that has lost its Jewish roots, namely Christianity.

Amein

el kabong wrote:Here's an example right here in this Thread. What was it? invisible..............answer my Counter-argument you wench...................

el kabong wrote:

el kabong wrote:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tw7guzT6ANI&feature=fvst







git yer groove on!




.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYlDltwm-JY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9FBKa-bCasY








https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sp3af4ZJS4w






https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMniyUyqN_E







https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COiIC3A0ROM

true lilly wrote:

and that was only a tiny sample of the countless examples
of why the wise, keep, The First Commandment, First and Last

hey suzi/not so tru lilly, I see you've made a new fan/reader.

what you know about YHWHs Commandments you could fit in a thimble and have lots of room left over. Your new fan says it well.

Your dog don't hunt. never did. never will.

One effect of an Alphabetic based Monotheism is the brain is using a new abstract, linear, sequential, and reductionist means of communication which moves people who learn it and use it into a Left Brain, Masculine Mode, rather then the usual Pictographic, Feminine Right Brain Mode.

The Aleph/Alphabet subliminally coaxes users to be intolerent of other Iconic Systems of Beliefs.

This is illuminated in the Ten Commandments.
As stated before, Judaism is the first religion to be based upon universal literacy, the written word.

When Moses came down from his meet and greet with YHWH on the mountain, the multitude had fashioned an Idol/Golden Calf, this dicombobulated Moses so much he dropped the two stone Tablets Yahweh had written the ten commandments.


Allegorically: In the first confrontation between Ihage and Written Word, both were destroyed.

As the story goes, Moses returned to the Mountain Top and Yahweh provided him with another set. Yahweh also taught Moses the Alephbet.

The 10 Commandments; The first four Commandments are for the Recognition and service/Worship of Yahweh, the remaining six focus on our fellow humans, loving and serving them.

The Commandment to Honour Both Father and Mother elevates and recognizes the importance and status of Women in the Family Group.

Loving your neighbour is not one of the Ten but appears in the Torah/Instruction, Leviticus 19:18.
The last six commandments are not unusual, and found in other Codexes of Laws, The First four Commandments are Unique.
Each one of the four encourages Alphabetic Literacy by rejecting the Right Brains way of 'knowing'.

One effect of a new, abstract, linear, sequential and reductionist means of communication moves people who learn it into a Left Brain, Masculine Mode.

Social Engineering.

The 10 Commandments: The First four concern Recognition/Respect and Service/Worship of Yahweh.

The remaining six are love and respect of fellow humans.

The Ethics they embody are more sophisticated then other contemporary ANE Cultures.

The commandment to honour BOTH Father and Mother signifies the womens important role and in the Family Unit.

Loving Neighbours is in the General Torah/Instruction: Leviticus 19:18

The last six commandments are not unusual, the first four commandments are unique. Each of the first four encourage Alphabetic literacy by rejecting the right brains way of knowing.

The First Commandment:

20:2 I am Yahweh thy Elohim, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.

20:3 Thou shalt have no other elohim before me.

In one fell swoop subserviates all other elohim/gods & goddesses.

Nothing personal, it was business.

The Meta-Message of the First Commandment is that Yahweh is the Master of the Universe, He is self-existant, and all other elohim/gods & goddesses are created beings, subserviant to Him. Psalm 82

Psalm 82

82:1 Yahweh standeth in the congregation of El; he judgeth among the elohim.

82:2 How long will ye judge unjustly, and accept the persons of the wicked? Selah.

82:3 Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy.

82:4 Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked.

82:5 They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course.

82:6 I have said, Ye are elohim; and all of you are children of the most High.

82:7 But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.

82:8 Arise, O Yahweh, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations.

All of Yahwehs Titles are masculine.

The First Commandment is a radical break with the Hebrews past environment. Moses and the Hebrews had left Egypt which was Polytheistic, alot of gods and goddesses worship.

Yahweh declares there is no worship of other gods or goddesses. Full Stop.

Perhaps the most radical sentence ever written.

The Second Commandment:

20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:

20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I; Yahweh thy Elohim am a jealous Elohim, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

20:6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

No Graven Images, Icons or Idols, Statues.

Learning to think without Images is indispensable to Alphabetic Literacy. The Power formerly rendered to Images/Pictures is now transferred to the written word.

Make no Graven Images is a ban/restraint on Right Brain Pattern Recognition.

The Third Commandment:

20:7 Thou shalt not take the name of Yahweh thy Elohim in vain; for Yahweh will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.

Do not use Yahwehs Name vainly, with Malintent. Again; Left Brain.

Yahwehs first instruction to adam isto Name all the critters. Through Naming, Adam attains dominion over all the Earth. Naming confers meaning and order, moving Life from Chaos to Order.

To Name is to know, to know is to control. Order out of Chaos.

The Fourth Commandment:

20:8 Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.

20:9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:

20:10 But the seventh day is the Sabbath of thy Elohim: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

20:11 For in six days made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore blessed the Sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Seven Days are not a Natural Break Point in any of Earths Major Natural Rhythmic Cycles-Lunar-Solar, except the Quarter Moon.

This facilitates the learning of Aritmatic.

Leviticus 25:3-10 is about the Jubilee Years, the 50th,

No other ANE culture at that time had instructed the general population to compute complex time periods, this had formerly been the domain of the Priestly Castes.

The Time Commandment lays the foundation for the concept of Justice, a well developed sense of Linear Time is necessary to conceive of Punishment delayed and Rewards postponed.

Non-Literate Cultures are not as pre-occupied with the notion/concept of Justice as the Literate, because they do not conceive of time only as linear.

Non-Literated peeps tend to think of death as a passage to another World, not as a Day in Court.

Alphabets stretch out the sense of Time and make possible the awareness of the possibility of a retribution Time in the distant future.

A Judgements day only occurs in Literate Cultures.

Alphabet Literate Cultures became aware of writing History in a Linear, Chronological sequencing of Events.

The fourth Commandments Mechanical/Sociological ramifications is instructing people to be aware of Passing Time.

This was the advent of the seven day week, and a day off every week.

A day off for ALL Humans, Free and Bond, and ALL Beasts of Burden and the Farmland every seven years isto lay fallow to rejuvinate the enzymes in the ground.

This led to Sundials, waterclocks, Pendulums, Escape Mechanisms, Cogs, Gears, Calenders.

Time is a key function of the Left Brain.

Each of the First Four Commandments trains people in the ability to: Think Abstractly, linearly and sequentially.

Collectively, they produce a Mindset that enhances the use and facility of Alphabetic Literacy.

This Technology welded the small group into a cohesive and coherent Nation/Culture.

Do you realise how you contradict yourself? The First Commandment is a pillar of the Torah/Instruction (which you insult and falsly declare was 'done away with') of YHWH Elohim, and it declares that the Hebrews were in Egypt/Mizraim, which you deny.

Torah means Instruction. YHWH Elohim has provided aLL humankind with His Instruction, who are you to say otherwise?

A lying, false prophet.

You are really a mental case like Billy Rueben has documented.

el kabong wrote:fuk suzis aka tru lillys complaints about Kity Kat Posts.

Suzi, aka tru lilly, listen to this hooman









































[img][/img]

true lilly wrote:

le sabrage wrote:
May this House be built quickly in our time. Amen.

SEE, another sly admission that
'They' The King of The NORTH,
and his followers,
MEAN TO TAKE AUSTRALIA
FOR 'THEM'................... ..............................

er........suzi........................only the rankest moron(you) would have projected that reply to my Post.........well done....again.

FYI...they are talking about Jerusalem, in Israel.....................what don't you understand about that?

Was YHWHS previous two Temples in Australia?

NO.

Israel is the Eternal Promised Land................NOT Australia.........


Neither will be the Third, and when the New Jerusalem decends it will over the old Jerusalem in.................Israel, not Australia..............it is futile for you to twist and pervert the Scriptures of YHWH, the Prophets you quote, out of context, are YHWHs Prophets, they speak of Israel..........NOT Australia..................suzi/lily.....you remain p.a.t.h.e.t.i.c......Analysis of Daniel 11:2-35

Daniel 11 fits the history of the Seleucids and Ptolemies like a pair of tailor-made gloves." The vision in Daniel 11:2-35 is set in the third year of the Persian King Cyrus the Great (ca. 536 B.C.). The Greek conqueror Alexander the Great is briefly mentioned in Daniel 11:2 as a "warrior king," and the fourfold division of his empire is referred to in Daniel 11:3. Daniel 11:5-20 describes the wars between the Ptolemiac and Seleucid Empires. Daniel 11:21-35 is devoted to Antiochus Epiphanes, his rise to power, attacks on Egypt, and subsequent persecution of the Jews. The reader should particularly note the increased attention given to detail as the vision focuses on the second century B.C. and the tyranny of Antiochus. .
http://www.bibleplus.org/prophecy/kings.html


Suzi, you remain a Bullshit Artist...........

Daniel 11 fits the history of the Seleucids and Ptolemies like a pair of tailor-made gloves."


Some insightful Bible students noticed, the proof lies in the obvious identity that exists between Daniel's "the king of the north" in the last days and Ezekiel's "Gog" of the latter days. By comparing what is said about each of them in the two prophecies, it is manifest that they can only be different titles for the same being.

Ezekiel Chapter 38 and 39 = Daniel 11:45

Their geographical position is the same. "Gog's" country is in the north part in relation to the Holy Land; as it is written, "Thou shalt come from thy place out of the north parts". "Gog" is therefore "the king of the north", his place or country being there.

Both of them are adversaries of Israel and invaders of the Holy Land. The eleventh chapter of Daniel abundantly proves this in relation to "the king of the north"; and of "Gog", Yahoueh said: "Thou shalt come up against my people Israel, as a cloud to cover the land".
The time they invade the land is the same. "The king of the north" invades in the last days. Of "Gog" it is said: "It shall be in the latter days, and I will bring thee against my land".
The same peoples are named as components of their armies. The Libyans and Ethiopians are allies with "the king of the north"; and in the enumeration of Gog's forces, it says, "Persia, Ethiopia, and Libya with them".
Who is "Gog"? Which land is the land of "Magog"?
Some people think that "Gog" is the Devil. But does the context support this idea? Ezekiel wrote that after "Gog's" last attack he will fall and then be buried by the people. (Ez.39:4,11) So there is no need to prove that "Gog" represents the Devil as we know that the devil does not have a body of flesh and bone and has no need for a grave. Thus, in actuality, whom does "Gog" symbolize?

"Gog" is the chief prince of Meschech and Tubal. Meshech, the sixth son of Japheth (Genesis 10:2) is the founder of a tribe (1 Chronicles 1:5; Ezekiel 27:13; 38:2,3). They were in all probability the Moschi people, inhabiting the Moschian Mountains, between the Black and the Caspian Seas. In Psalms 120:5 the name occurs simply as a synonym for foreigners or barbarians. "During the ascendancy of the Babylonians and Persians in Western Asia, the Moschi were subdued; but it seems probable that a large number of them crossed the Caucasus range and spread over the northern steppes, mingling with the Scythians. There they became known as Muscovs and gave this name to the Russian nation and its ancient capital by which they are still generally known throughout the East" (Easton's Bible Dictionary).

Many ancient sources have clearly identified "Magog" as referring to the "Scythians".
One of the earliest references to Magog was made by Hesiod, "the father of Greek didactic poetry" who identified Magog with the Scythians and southern Russia in the 7th century B.C. Hesiod was a contemporary of Ezekiel.

Josephus Flavius clearly identified Magog. "Magog founded the Magogians, thus named after him, but who were by the Greeks called Scythians". (Josephus, Antiquities, 1.123; Jerome, Commentary on Ezekiel 38:2)

The Greek historian Herodotus wrote that in the fifth century B.C. the Scythians ruled from the Don River, in present southern Russia, to the Carpathian Mountains in central Europe.

Philo, is another historian in the first century A.D. who identified "Magog" with southern Russia.

Ancient authorities clearly identified the Scythians as the ancestors of the present day Russians.

However, even without that information, the identity of "Magog" is not too difficult to figure out. In Ezekiel 38:15, it says: "And thou shalt come from thy place out of the north parts, thou, and many people with thee". The "north parts" is literally the "extreme, or uttermost" parts of the north.

Who are "the kings of the north" and "south"? Who are the "kings" of this chapter?

Daniel 11:2
Since the Prophecy was given in the third year of Cyrus (Daniel 10:1), the three kings that were to "stand up yet", that is, "after him", were Cambyses II, Smerdis the Magian imposter, Darius I Hystaspes.

The fourth king, Xerxes I, stirred up Persia against Greece, which he invaded in 480 B.C. but failed to conquer. Since prophecy touches only upon important events and characters, the remaining kings of Persia are omitted, and the prophecy jumps over nearly 150 years to the time of Alexander the Great 336-323 B.C.E.

Daniel 11:3,4
"A valiant king", Alexander the Great, whose kingdom after his death was divided into four parts.
1) Seleucus I - who began the Seleucid (Syrian) empire, from Turkey to India.
2) Cassander - who took over Macedonia (Greece).
3) Lysimachus - who took Thracia (between Greece and Turkey).
4) Ptolemy I - who ruled over Egypt.

Daniel 11:5
After the death of Alexander the Great in 323 B.C., the throne of Egypt fell to Ptolemy I Soter, the son of Lagus, the king of the south.
"One of his princes", Seleucus I, Nicator ["the king of the north"] also rose to power, and took over the region of Syria. He eventually became more powerful than his former Egyptian ruler.

Daniel 11:6
"The daughter of the king of the south" = Berenice II, daughter of Ptolemy II Philadelphus.
"The king of the north" = Antiochus II Theos.
Two years after the marriage, Berenice's father (Ptolemy Philadelphus) died.
Antiochus restored Laodice and put away Berenice.
He was then poisoned by Laodice.
Berenice fled with her children to Daphne where she was killed.

Daniel 11:7-9
A "branch of her roots" will come with an army. This was Berenice's brother, Ptolemy III Euregetes, "the king of the south".
"The king of the north" is Seleucus II Kallinikos, son of Laodice who was defeated in a later invasion of Egypt. He lost most of Asia Minor along with losing to the military expansion of Ptolemy III who put his mother, Laodice, to death.
Verse 9: "And [the king of the north] will enter into the kingdom of the king of the south, but will return to his own land". (literal translation)
Seleucus II, son of the deceased Laodice, sought revenge for the vengeance taken by Ptolemy III. "Justin says that he fitted out a great fleet, which was destroyed by a violent storm; and after this he raised a great army to recover his dominion, but was defeated by Ptolemy, and fled in great terror and trembling to Antioch" (Gill's Commentary).

Daniel 11:10-12
His ["the king of the north"] sons = Seleucus III Ceraunus and Antiochus III the Great.
"The king of the north" = Antiochus III, the Great.
"The king of the south" = Ptolemy IV Philopator.
Ptolemy IV defeated the much larger army of Antiochus III at the Battle of Raphia in 217.

Daniel 11:13-17
"The king of the south" = Ptolemy V Epiphanes.
"The king of the north" = Antiochus III.
Antiochus III gives his daughter Cleopatra I to Ptolemy V, in hopes of permanent influence in Egypt.
Verse 14a: "And in those times many will rise against the king of the south".
At this time, many of the Egyptians began rebelling against the ruling Grecian family and began rioting and defying them.

Verse 14b: "And the sons of the violent ones of your people shall rise up to establish the vision, but they shall stumble". (LIT)
This verse speaks of the violent sons of Daniel's nation. Many commentators suggest that these people will stand up against the king of the south, but this text foretells that these people will lift themselves up to establish the vision. They were called a violent people by Ezekiel who in this way described them as shedders of blood. (18:10a) The word vision [in Aramaic chezev; in Hebrew chazown] is used in the Book of Daniel e.g. in: 7:1,2,7,13,15; 8:1,2,13,15,17,26; 9:24; 10:14; 11:14. All of these visions prophecy of the future persecution of God's nation, that would be fulfilled in the distant future. (Daniel 8:17; 10:14)
What kind of violent people would lift themselves in the ancient time, to fulfill the inspired visions and prophecies before their time? The First Book of the Maccabees clearly indicates the Maccabees as being these violent people. (1:54; 6:7) Until now, many commentators believe that the Maccabees fulfilled the prophecies of the Book of Daniel. But Jesus said that the vision which concerns the abomination of desolation and the persecutions of God's nation will be fulfilled in the future. (Compare Matthew 24:15; Revelation 13:1-

Verse 11:16b "and he standeth in the desirable land, and it is wholly in his hand". (YLT)
After one hundred years, Palestine again changed hands. The Seleucid king, Antiochus III, took control of Palestine c. 200 B.C.E.

Daniel 11:18
Antioch III against the Roman Empire.
"Ruler" = Lucius Cornelius, the Roman general.
The Romans humbled him (191) at Thermopylae and again at Magnesia (190).

Daniel 11:19a
Subsequently, Antiochus was forced to campaign within his own lands to stop his satraps from declaring themselves independent rulers.

Daniel 11:19b
"He shall stumble and fall, and shall not be found" = end of the period of greatness for the Seleucid Empire. (Compare Revelation 18:21; Jeremiah 51:64)

Daniel 11:20
"And stood up on his station hath one causing an exactor to pass over the honour of the kingdom, and in a few days he is destroyed, and not in anger, nor in battle". (YLT)

"The king of the north" = Caesar Augustus. The first Roman emperor.
"The king of the south" not on the scene.

In 2 B.C., Augustus sent out "an exactor" by ordering a registration, or census, most likely to learn the size of the population for purposes of taxation and military conscription. Because of this decree, Joseph and Mary traveled to Bethlehem for registration, resulting in Jesus' birth at that foretold location. (Micah 5:2; Matthew 2:1-12)

Daniel didn’t prophecy that "the king of the north" would die "after a few days" from this event, but would die in the undetermined future "after a few days". In the end of July, in the year 14 A.D., August left Rome. He took a vacation in his old age and health. On the 19th of August, after a short sickness, he "passed away peacefully, not feeling any pain". While traveling in Campania, Augustus died "in a few days", neither "in anger" at an assassin's hands nor "in warfare", but after a short illness.

Many say that "the king of the north" is Seleucus IV Philopater, who sent out his finance minister, Heliodorus to collect taxes. But Seleucus was murdered in a conspiracy engineered by Heliodorus. It is said that the king here was to however die a natural death (not one of anger or of battle). Therefore, this writing does not conform to Seleucus IV. Also, verse 21 cannot carry over to the rule of Antiochus IV Epiphanes.

Daniel 11:21-23
Verse 21: "And in his place shall arise a despised. And they will not give him the royal majesty. He will come in a time of peace and will seize the kingdom through duplicity".

"The king of the north" = Tiberius 14-37.
"The king of the south" not on the scene.

"The ruler of the covenant" = Jesus [Yeshua].

Augustus only chose him after more favored heirs had died.
The New Encyclopædia Britannica says, Tiberius played politics with the Senate and did not allow it to name him emperor for almost a month [after Augustus died]". He told the Senate that no one but Augustus was capable of carrying the burden of ruling the Roman Empire and asked the senators to restore the republic by entrusting such authority to a group of men rather than to one man. "Not daring to take him at his word", wrote historian Will Durant, "the Senate exchanged bows with him until at last he accepted power". Durant added: "The play was well acted on both sides. Tiberius wanted the principate, or he would have found some way to evade it; the Senate feared and hated him, but shrank from reestablishing a republic based, like the old, upon theoretically sovereign assemblies". Thus, Tiberius took hold of the kingdom by means of duplicity.

Verse 22: "And the arms of the flood shall be swept from before his face, and they will be broken, and also the ruler of a covenant".

In 15 A.D., Germanicus led his forces against the German hero Arminius, with some success. However, the limited victories were won at great cost, and Tiberius thereafter aborted operations in Germany. Instead, by promoting civil war, he tried to prevent German tribes from uniting. Tiberius generally favoured a defensive foreign policy and focused on strengthening the frontiers. This stance was fairly successful. In this way "the arms of the flood" were controlled and were "broken".
"Broken" too was "the Leader of the covenant" = Jesus [Yeshua]. (Compare Isaiah 55:4; Daniel 9:25, 27a)

Verse 23: "And after they join themselves to him, he will do guile, and he will exalt himself, and will do strong by a few of the people".

The oath of loyalty bound the army and officials to the Tiberius.
"Sextus Pompeius and Sextus Apuleius, the consuls, were the first to swear allegiance to Tiberius Caesar, and in their presence the oath was taken by Seius Strabo and Caius Turranius, respectively the commander of the praetorian cohorts and the superintendent of the corn supplies. Then the Senate, the soldiers and the people did the same".
Those few people were the Roman Praetorian Guard, encamped close to Rome's walls. Its proximity intimidated the Senate and helped Tiberius keep in check any uprisings against his authority among the populace. By means of some 10.000 guards Tiberius remained mighty.

Daniel 11:24
"In a time of peace he will come against [sense: will attack] the fattest [sense: mighty] of the land, and he will do that which his fathers have not done, nor his fathers' fathers: prey, and spoil, and substance, their possession he will distribute. And against strongholds he will devise his schemes until the appointed time".

"The king of the north" = Tiberius and next emperors.
"The king of the south" not on the scene.

The word "mashman" refers here to fattest [sense: mighty]. (Compare Ps.78:31 and Is.10:16)
Because he was very suspicious, Emperor Tiberius, extended the law of laesa majestas. Many senators were put to death on a charge of treason against the emperor. For the people of the provinces, it was a peaceful and well-ordered time.

Daniel 11:25,26a
Aurelian (270-275) against Queen Zenobia of Palmyra ["the king of the south"].

The Palmyrene army occupied Egypt in 269 B.C.E. under the pretext of making it secure for Rome. Zenobia wanted to make Palmyra the dominant city in the east and wanted to rule over Rome's eastern provinces. Alarmed by her ambition, Aurelian aroused "his power and his heart" to proceed against Zenobia.
Zenobia valiantly defended it, but without success. She and her son fled toward Persia, only to be captured by the Romans at the Euphrates River. The Palmyrenes surrendered their city in 272 B.C. Aurelian spared Zenobia, making her the prize feature in his triumphal procession through Rome in 274 B.C. She spent the rest of her life as a Roman matron.
Aurelian himself 'did not stand because of schemes against him.' In 275 B.C., he set out on an expedition against the Persians. While he was waiting in Thrace for the opportunity to cross the straits into Asia Minor, those who 'ate his food' carried out schemes against him and brought about his "breakdown". He was going to call his secretary Eros to account for irregularities. Eros, however, forged a list of names of certain officers marked for death. The sight of this list moved the officers to plot Aurelian's assassination and to murder him.

Daniel 11:26b. (Compare Daniel 9:26b)
"and his army will be flooded and many will fall down slain".

Decline and fall of the Roman Empire.

"The strength of Aurelian had crushed on every side the enemies of Rome. After his death they seemed to revive with an increase of fury and of numbers".

Daniel 11:27
"And both these kings, their hearts (will be) to do mischief, and at one table (they) will speak a lie. But it will not succeed, for yet (the) finish to (the) appointed time." (11:27, literal translation)
It certainly suggests that the verse does not concern to the ancient times. It describes the end of times right before the appointed time. (Compare Daniel 11:29a)

Russia and England (from second half of the XIX Century).

Egyptian history dates back to about 4000 B.C., when the kingdoms of upper and lower Egypt, already highly sophisticated, were united. Egypt's golden age coincided with the 18th and 19th dynasties (16th to 13th century B.C.), during which the empire was established. Persia conquered Egypt in 525 B.C.E, Alexander the Great subdued it in 332 B.C.E., and then the Ptolemaic dynasty ruled the land until 30 B.C., when Cleopatra, last of the line, committed suicide and Egypt became a Roman, then Byzantine, province. Arab caliphs ruled Egypt from 641 until 1517, when the Turks took it for their Ottoman Empire. Napoléon's armies occupied the country from 1798 to 1801. In 1805, Mohammed Ali, leader of a band of Albanian soldiers, became pasha of Egypt. After completion of the Suez Canal in 1869, the French and British took increasing interest in Egypt. British troops occupied Egypt in 1882, and British resident agents became its actual administrators, though it remained under nominal Turkish sovereignty. In 1914, this fiction was ended, and Egypt became a protectorate of Britain.
Russia grew expanding its power over huge regions, and by the end of XIX century Russia possessed territories from the mouths of the Danube and Visla in the west, reached the Pacific Ocean in the east, began in the Euroasian tundra in the north and had borders with Turkey, Iran, Afghanistan and China in the south.

In 1907, an Anglo-Russian agreement divided Persia into English and Russian spheres of influence, a large Russian sphere in the north, covering the most valuable part of the country, a neutral sphere in the centre, and a smaller British sphere in the southeast.

Daniel 11:28
"And (he) ["the king of the north"] will go back (to) his land with great wealth; and his heart (will be) against the holy covenant; and will act effectively; and turned back to his own land." (literal translation)

History of Russia after World War II.

The passage contains enough details, which allow for a correct interpretation.

Daniel foretells here that "the king of the north" [Russia] will not only be successful in WW II, but also that he returns to his land with a great amount of goods. If only Hitler had listened to Mussolini and the Japanese, who in 1943 advised him to stop military actions, the prophetic detail would have never been fulfilled.

Daniel 11:28b
"and turned back to his own land".

The break-up of the Soviet Union and return to the country of Russian garrisons (the liquidation of Russian military bases).

The prophecy of Daniel 11 is the key to understanding what is going to happen in the future.

The latter statements Jesus' and Daniel's are alike.


Matthew 24:5,6 (Luke 21:8,9) = Daniel 11:27,28 = XIX, XX, XXI Century, before the World War III

"Many for will come in the name of me, saying: 'I am the anointed'; and many they will mislead." (Matthew 24:5, literal translation)

"He said, 'Watch out that you don't get led astray, for many will come in my name, saying, 'I AM,' and, 'The time is at hand.' Therefore don't follow them." (Luke 21:8, WEB)

"Don't be afraid when you hear of wars and revolutions; such things must happen first, but they do not mean that the end is near." (Luke 21:9, GNB)

Matthew 24:7 = Daniel 11:29,30 = WW III

Matthew 24:15 = Daniel 11:31 = "trampling of Jerusalem" [the great tribulation of Christian minorities; compare Revelation 11]

Matthew 24:29 = Daniel 11:40 = WW IV

Daniel 11:29a
"At (the) appointed time (he) will return, and will enter into (the) south."

1. Russian troops will be station abroad again.
2. "The king of the north" will come into the South.

Daniel 11:29b,30
"But will not be as (the) former or as (the) latter. For will come against him (the) dwellers of coastlands of Kittim, and (he) will be humbled, and will return." (literal translation)

1. The West will come against the Russia.
2. "The king of the north" will be humbled, and will return.
(Compare Matthew 24:7; Revelation 6:4)

Daniel 11:31
1. The nations will trample "the holy city" [of those who belong to Christ] forty-two months. (Compare Revelation 11:2,7; 13:5,7a; Luke 21:24b; Matthew 24:21,22; Daniel 7:25; 9:27; Isaiah 29:1-8,20-24; Matthew 13:40-43,49,50; Ezekiel 13:8-16,20-23; 34:10; 2Thessalonians 2:8b; Isaiah 28:1-4,17-22; 6:13; Malachi 3:1-5)

The religious organizations from among Christian minorities which Jesus compared to "the weeds", will be "burned". (Mt.13:30) Yahoueh will protect the righteous ones. (Re.11:1) "The wheat" will be put into "the storehouse" after the tribulation – which means that "the sons of the kingdom" will become gathered and unified at that time. They will shine as brightly as the sun after the tribulation.

2. "The abomination of desolation" [the World Government] will be set up. (Revelation 13:7b; Daniel 12:11)

Daniel 11:32-35
Details of their future global religious persecution. (Compare Daniel 8:11,12; Revelation 6:9-11; 12:15)

Daniel 11:36-39
Russia before the World War IV. (Compare Ezekiel 38:7)

Daniel 11:40
The World War IV. (Compare Luke 21:25; Isaiah 5:26-30; Matthew 24:29; Daniel 7:11; Revelation 13:3; Ezekiel 32:2-16; Habakkuk 1:5-17; Revelation 6:12; Zephaniah 1:14-18; Joel 2:1-11,31, ASV)

Daniel 11:41
Occupation of Israel. (Compare Ezekiel 39:23-29)

Daniel 11:42,43
The triumph of Russia. (Compare Isaiah 10:12-15)

Daniel 11:44,45
Russia again will attack Israel. (Compare Daniel 12:1; Joel 2:20; Isaiah 14:4-27; Habakkuk 3:3-16)

"Many will study, therefore understanding will be multiplied". (Daniel 12:4b)



What is the Bible's scenario?
1. Russian troops station abroad again. (Daniel 11:29a)

2. "The king of the north" becomes very aggressive and enters into the south. (Daniel 11:29a)

3. The West opposes Russia. (Daniel 11:30; Matthew 24:7a; Revelation 6:4)

4. "The king of the north" is humiliated, and turns back. (Daniel 11:30). He does not make the same mistake as Hitler did, he does not fight to the death and this is why Russia is not occupied.

5. The World Government appears after that war which replaces the ineffective UN. Its power gradually rises. (Revelation 13:1,2,7b; Daniel 11:31b)

6. Russia rebuilds its military power very fast and acts effectively on the world scene. (Daniel 11:30b)

7. "Russia’s rulers pay attention to those "who forsake the holy covenant". (Daniel 11:30b)

8. A man "of fierce countenance, and understanding ambiguous sayings" becomes the president of the USA, and he begins to fight with Christian minorities. (Daniel 8:23-25)

9. There is a tribulation of "Jerusalem" = it is a tribulation of Christian minorities, which lasts 42 month’s. (Daniel 11:31a; Matthew 24:15; Revelation 13:5-7a; Matthew 13:40-42,49,50; 24:48-51)

The Christian communities, which are now called sects, are decimated. It is the biggest genocide concerning religion in history. The eyes of people who were deceived by them will be opened. (Isaiah 6:9-13)

The "tyrant", according to LXX “lawless” = the rulers of Christian minorities will be removed. (Isaiah 29:1-8,20,21) Ezekiel calls them "women". (Ezekiel 13:17-23; Revelation 14:4a; Isaiah 3:12) Paul names them "the man of lawlessness". (2 Thessalonians 2:4,8b)

10. Immediately after the tribulation of those days "the abomination of desolation", in other words the World Government will be set up [will given authority; Revelation 13]. (Daniel 11:31b; 12:11) The Book of Revelation calls it a "beast". (11:7; 13:1,2,7,

11. The spirit is poured out upon people who belong to Jesus. (Revelation 11:11-13) The "wheat" = the sons of kingdom, will be gathered into the "storehouse" after burning the "weeds" = organized Christian churches which earlier posed as the churches of Christ. (Matthew 13:30b; Eph.1:9,10) And then Jesus will set up a "faithful slave" over his whole possession. (Matthew 24:45-47)

12. The seven trumpets start to sound. Those who belong to Jesus are revealing future events to the World. They will also try to explain what God thinks of certain issues. (Revelation 8:6-10:11)

13. The power in Russia will be taken over by a dictator who is atheist. The military power will be his god. (Daniel 11:36-39)

14. Not longer after that, there will be the WWIV. That time Russia will triumph the same as it did after the WWII. (Daniel 11:40; Daniel 7:11; Luke 21:25; Revelation 13:3a). "The king of the north" will act as a "God’s hammer" ravaging many countries like Babylon in ancient times. (Jeremiah 51:20,25)

15. Russia occupies Israel as well. (Daniel 11:41)

16. After that war the World Government is resuscitated. The "purple beast" will be given even more power. The politicians will relinquish their sovereignty in favor of the beast. (Revelation 13:14; 17:8,17)

17. Attack on "Babylon the Great" = big, apostatized churches, drunk with blood of innocent people, which betrayed God and Jesus by co-operating with kings of the earth. (Revelation 17:16)

18. Next, nations see the sign of the Son of man (Matthew 24:30). Probably it will be connected with the first resurrection (Revelation 20:6). People who have died in union with Jesus will rise first (among 144.000). They will get a spirit body at the resurrection. (1 Corinthians 15:35,44) What will be the proof of the resurrection? Immediately after that, remaining of 144,000 will be transfigured (1 Corinthians 15:52; 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17). Simultaneously they will be caught away from the earth and taken to heaven. The transfigurations of belonging to Jesus dependably will not be seen and it will cause a great expression on nations.

19. The whole nation of Israel is converting and gathering. (Ezekiel 39:25-29; Romans 11:25-32). After taking to heaven belonging to group of 144,000 nation of Israel will be a light for the nations. God will be with them and will pour his spirit over them. (Ezekiel 39:29)

20. Rebuilding of the Temple according to directions given to Ezekiel. (Ezekiel 37:24-28; 43:11)

21. There will be collection of chosen, separation the "sheep from the goats". (Matthew 24:31; 25:31-44; Revelation 14:15,16).

22. "The king of the north" will attack people who worship the true God [Israel] (Ezekiel 38:10-12). "The beast" [the word government] also will take part in this attack. (Revelation 19:19).

23. After Armageddon the power on the world will be taken over by the "new heaven" = the kingdom of God i.e. Jesus and belonging to him. (Daniel 7:27; Matthew 6:10; Revelation 21:1-4) "The old heaven" = imperfect system of authority created by man will go away. Rules and the law created by imperfect people which are captivating and making difficulty will be untied. All activities remaining uncovered, good or bad will be revealed, all crimes will come to light. (2 Peter 3:10; 1 Timothy 5:25).

24. The rest of dead will come to life! The earth will become the paradise. (Acts 24:15; Psalm 37:29; Isaiah 11:6-9; 25:8; 35:5-7). When the thousand year’s period of Jesus’ kingdom will end people who come to life during this period are put to the test. And then they will really come to life God’s point of view and then they will get ability to live forever. (Revelation 20:5a,7,8; comp. Luke 15:32; 1 John 3:14).



"Behold, the former things are come to pass, and new things do I declare: before they spring forth will I cause you to hear them". (Isaiah 42:9)

see suzi? you ignore Genesis 10, the Table of Nations and thus pervert and twist scripture to conform to your insanity..which is distorted and deformed..............capiche?

http://faculty.gordon.edu/hu/bi/Ted_Hildebrandt/OTeSources/01-Genesis/Text/Articles-Books/Ross-TableNations-BSac.pdf

The Table of Nations in
Genesis 10--Its Content
Allen P. RossThe previous article in this series dealt with the structure of
the Table of Nations in Genesis 10.1 The deliberate design in its
construction, symmetry, and unity were examined in an effort to
understand its purpose as a tOdl;OT. But in addition to the evi-
deuce from its structure, there is a wealth of information about
the nations of the world that is important for the complete under-
standing of this chapter within the message of Genesis.
The Analysis of the Passage
The heading of the chapter (Gen. 10:1) declares that this is
the record of the particulars of what became of Shem, Ham, and
Japheth after the Flood. The verse serves not only as a heading for
the Table, but also as a literary connection back to Genesis 9:18
and 28. It is to be read with the oracle of Noah in mind!....................The sons of Japheth are seven. Gomer, mentioned also in
Ezekiel 38:6, represents the Cimmerians, thought to be of the
same stock as the Scythians.5 Magog is also mentioned in Ezekiel
(38:2 and 39:6) as the land of Gog, the region between Armenia
and Cappadocia; the name seems to represent the Scythian
hordes southeast of the Black Sea.6

..............

THE SONS OF HAM (10:6-20)
More attention is given to the line of Ham than to that of
Japheth or Shem. Ham's line has four branches: Cush, Mizraim,
Put, and Canaan. All four are probably place names for Nubia-
Egypt, Upper and Lower Egypt, Libya, and Phoenicia-Palestine
respectively. In addition, the descendants of these four are both
places and tribes.
Ham is the ancestor of all these people from Phoenicia to
Africa. The etymology of the word Ham is disputed,18 but it is
used to depict countries in close proximity to Egypt.
Cush is the "eldest son" according to the plan of the Table. In
antiquity this was an independent kingdom on the southern
flank of Egypt; and especially during the reign of Kamose it
served as the backbone of the Egyptian army, helping to expel the
Asiatics (Hyksos).19 So the list begins in the far south with the
African tribes known to the Greeks as Ethiopians.
Mizraim lies to the north of Cush. The word occurs almost
ninety times in the Old Testament for Egypt.

lilly: when you lie, twist and deform Scripture you are hurting yourself.......... .............The biblical commandments were given not for the sake of imposing rules and restrictions on people limiting their freedom, but as a Divine Communication that can be seen as generous; teaching, instructing(Torah); Humanbeings how life works and what to do and not do to make the best of it.

Within the mitzvot/commandments are all the instructions(Torah) neccessary for human conduct in order to help people avoid negative consequences and repercussions, and also to reap great benefit from living within alignment with the Laws of the Universe.

Who is wise?

They who can foresee the consequences of their action.

In Hebraic/Biblical thought, the whole function of the Torah(instruction) is to turn the soul away from the things of the 'Flesh'; from egoistic to altruistic...........During our life our soul either attaches to the things of the 'flesh'---to the Path of Darkness; or it attaches to the things of the Spirit.............becoming a Child of the Light........

Genesis-Bereshith: In the Beginning
26And Elohim said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the heavens, and over the livestock, and over all the earth and over all the creeping creatures that creep on the earth.”

27And Elohim created the man in His image, in the image of Elohim He created him – male and female He created them.

28And Elohim blessed them, and Elohim said to them, “Bear fruit and increase, and fill the earth and subdue it, and rule over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the heavens, and over all creatures moving on the earth.”

29And Elohim said, “See, I have given you every plant that yields seed which is on the face of all the earth, and every tree whose fruit yields seed, to you it is for food.

30“And to every beast of the earth, and to every bird of the heavens, and to every creeping creature on the earth, in which there is life, every green plant is for food.” And it came to be so. 31And Elohim saw all that He had made, and see, it was very good.

Tzelem Elokim=Humankind as Image of YHWH/God

1: Has Intelligence

2: Has Freewill

3: Has component of Spiritual Being-A Soul

4: HaShem/YHWH Rules the Universe and Spirit World, Humans have dominion over the Lower World.

5: Has the faculty of Judgement

6: Has an inherent Holiness and Dignity

As created in the image of God, humans are endowed with "three intrinsic dignities": infinite value, equality, and uniqueness.

The first means that human life cannot be weighed, measured, or compared in terms of, that is, subordinated to, any other value. In the Kantian Parlance humans are always a goal or end in themselves and never a means to something else.

The second term implies that no person or group is privileged over another. In fact, Idolatry results when a person or group absolutizes itself or its message.

The third idea reinforces the dignity of every human by insisting that each person is irreplaceable and has a special role to play in the redemption of the world.

The Jewish religion is founded on the divine assurance and human belief that the world will be perfected." Judaism engages with and seeks to overcome these realities of history through its notion of covenant. The covenant is that dynamic which God inaugurated in history, that partnership between God and the Jewish people, to achieve the dignities for which all humans were created. Jews are those teachers, models, and co-workers-having both a divine and human partners - whom God designated to help all persons and even nature achieve redemption. For Greenberg, the messianic dream of perfection will not be realized by divine fiat, but by "improving this world, one step at a time."

These understandings of God, humans, and the world are expressed through the Torah and lived-out by the Jewish people through the Holy days and the Halakhah. In this view, Torah is that divine teaching which stands as "the constitution of the ongoing relationship of God and the Jewish people."

This expanded view/articulation of higher values help us to search for YHWHs presence in the secular Realms of Life, some peeps call this: 'Holy Secularism'.

The Covenant is essentially a Divine, Loving, Pedagogic process. As Humans become more competent, YHWH invites them to take up a more active role in the Task of Tikkun Olam/World to Come, as Co-Creators.

The lay people of YHWH/God play a more influential role in discerning Yahwehs purpose and in carrying out His Divine Mandates.

Later, ensuing Historical events reshape understandings of earlier Teachings.

Summarized

We=ALL Living things-creatures-sustained and Nurtured by Yahweh-will fill the World with Life.

* We will reshape the Historical Reality, the Flesh & Blood world we inhabit, to sustain that Life at the highest possible level.

* Life will multiply and triumph Quantitatively over all its enemies; including Entropy, Death, and Disorder.

* Life will equally triumph Qualitatively.

* All of Lifes’ capacities/potentials will be developed fully and realized.

* When Life blossoms to its fullest capacity that treats all Life, especially Human Life-the most developed form-and sustains it with the highest and fullest respect that it deserves, then Life will be in harmony with existence and deeply related to Yahweh, its Source and Sustainer(Natural Laws)

* This is the Jews Story, and by default; the Christians/Xns.

* Telling the Story of Creation is the Jews 'Witness'. The present evidentiary Facts contradict the Narrative fairly substantialy.

* Yet, This Story of Creation is shared by Jews and Christians

* This Story leads Humans to see existence as best they can, from a Cosmic Perspective-Sub Specie Aeternitatis.

* From that Vantage Point there are Three Grand Movements in the unfolding Pattern of the Cosmos

1: The World is moving from Chaos to Order. From the Big Bang, with no Laws of Nature to the regularity of the Life sustaining Laws of Nature.

2: The World is moving from Non-Life to Life. From a State in which no life existed to the emergence of Life. From one cell, untold replications, life has grown Quantitatively, and developed Qualitatively. It has luxuriated and spread into a vast range of forms over and through a variety of sustaining conditions/environments.

* The declaration that Life is growing, moving from non-life to life is counter-intuitive.
Death & Entropy refute that contention.

The 'Key' is YHWH/God-The Hidden, Infinite Source of Life with limitless Goodness, Love and Power that sustains Life and Nurtures every possible Form of Life into Being.

* YHWH, the Divine Source evokes the Third Grand Movement of the Cosmos

3: Life is growing ever more to resemble its Ground: YHWH

Life moves from being less to becoming more and more like Yahweh. The highest form of Life, the Human Being, represents the High Point reached thus far.

In Human Form, life so resembles its Maker that it is called; Biblically; 'The Image of God'

* This emergence of "The Image of God" is the Turning Point in Cosmic History according to Jews & Christians.

Up to that point Life has been sworn to 'Be Fruitful & Multiply' (maximizing reproductive success) through a built-in control Programme-A 'Selfish Gene'- that drives the process.

* The 'Image of God' Consciousness is so much like YHWHs that Humans are able to 'grasp' this overall pattern of which we, ourselves are part, and to join voluntarily in its realization.

* Similarly, the Human 'Image of YHWH/God has a capacity to Love ALL their fellow creatures and every aspect of the Universe, as well as the Maker of it all and the Beauty of the Plan.

* Once Humans understand and embrace this understanding, they will lovingly identify with and willingly participate in the process of Perfection.

* YHWH has invited us, as Humans, The 'Image of God', to enter into a Covenantal Partnership, committed to Love, to join fully in perfecting the Universe.

Tikkun Olam

* The People of Israel joyfully acknowledge that YHWHs first Covenant, the Noahide Covenant, never superseded, is made with ALL Humanity, not exclusively with Jews and/or Christians alone.

* It is made with ALL Sentient Beings.

* ALL Beings are called to recognize and participate in Natures Patterns.

* To accept Limits.

* To Direct their choices and actions in favour of Life.

* To join in working for Order against Chaos.

* We are ALL CHOSEN to become part of the movement from Non-Life to Life.

* We are commanded to increase Life and make it grow ever more like its Maker.


* The purpose of the Religious way of life is to create the nurturing ambience of memory and experience, of relationships and actions that sustain Human growth and turns it towards Yahweh.

* Being in the 'Image of God/YHWH brings with it more God like capacities. It bestows intrinsic Dignity, a climatic extension of that respect to which all of life is entitled.

* The People of Israel hold these Truths to be self-evident: That ALL Humans are created in 'The Image of YHWH/God; and endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable Rights, among which are:

* Infinite Value

* Equality

* Uniqueness.

These are Birthrights of every Son & Daughter of Yahweh

The Sinai Event was the ultimate Social Engineering event.

The Torah is the first, and oldest Religious Book written in an Alephbet/ Alphabet........this alters the hegemony of the Brain to being left hemispherical centric=Abstract, linear and sequential. the ground for Theoretical Science....


THE UNIVERSAL DESIRE FOR CLOSENESS TO God...AND THE SECRET OF THE SABBATH by Rabbi Chaim Richman

The following teaching from the riches of the Oral Tradition is about a level of understanding the Sabbath which is relevant to Jews and non-Jews alike. It is based on a teaching by Rabbi Chaim ben Atar (1746-1793), known as "the holy Light of Life," based on the title of his most famous work.

I. The World Intuitively Pines for G-d
Man - The Centerpiece of Creation
The created world can be divided into four basic categories: the inanimate, plant, animal, and 'speaking' life - man. Man, the highest level of creation, is the only creature endowed with the capability of speech, and this is what singles him out as a completely separate category - he has the greatest potential to develop a relationship with his Creator. He is the center of creation and its purpose and crowning achievement. For this reason, he was created last, and introduced into the Garden... to enable him to enter into a complete world, ready for him, furnished and equipped in advance to house its illustrious occupant.

Every Level of Creation Possesses a Soul
Man is followed by the members of the animal kingdom. Next in line comes the plant kingdom, and finally, inanimate creation - the lowest level of creation, as exemplified by stone. Even stone, the Torah teaches, possesses some degree of life-force, however weak. For it is impossible for something which the Holy One has created to be incapable of recognizing Him. Therefore, commensurate to that degree of life-force, awareness of the Divine could be said to exist within it...

Desire for Closeness to G-d... The Prime Mover
And so the soul, the essence, of every creature, each according to its level of understanding, has some inkling of the greatness of the Creator, and actually carries on a relationship with Him. This soul is constantly driven with endless passion to come closer to the source of all life, the Great and Perfect Light of the L-rd... how much more so should this be true among the higher, more spiritual elements of creation who understand to some extent what it means to 'cling' to the light of the living G-d.

All of Creation is United in the Desire for Closeness to G-d
Herein lies one of the greatest secrets of creation...

All life on earth... and even the actual physical elements that comprise the planet itself - the entire world as one, including every level of creation, from the lowest level of the inanimate - stones and earth, to the highest and most intelligent life-form, man himself; an endless pageant which spans every creature, plant and animal - all are constantly and inexorably united by an all-consuming, burning desire for G-d. This is the vital force which drives the world; this desire is the power which fuels the universe... it reverberates within the entire life-force, and the whole globe, like a man beating with one heart, knows on the deepest level with absolute clarity that there is nothing as sweet, desirable, and sustaining as 'Dveykut' - the ability to 'cling' close to the light of the Creator. This is the purpose of life itself, and on the deepest collective intuitive level, all are aware that nothing else is worth living for. This longing is itself the vital life-force of everything, and the entire world draws from it at once. In other words, this longing for G-d is what fuels the world to go on.

Because G-d is the Creator of all existence, He maintains an intimate link with each and every creature, regardless of its spiritual capacity. Obviously not all of creation is equal in spiritual sensitivity. Regardless of this, that link of intimate knowledge still exists, according to its degree of conciousness and development.

Three Revolutionary Innovations in Human History took place at Mount Sinai.

1: Abstract Ethical Monotheism

2: Universal Codified Law

3: An Alephbet 1,800 BCE

Abstract Ethical Monotheism rather than Polytheism, Rule of Law for All rather than the Divine Rights of Kings or Queens and an Aleph/Bet, less than thirty characters that replaced Iconographs/Ideograms and Hieroglyphs, enhancing Literacy amongst the masses.

The abstraction of all three innovations were mutually reinforcing.

YHWH/God proclaimed that there exists a Codex of morality that stands above Human intercourse.

The 10 Commandments applied universally to everyone. no King, Pharoah, or Potentate was above the Law.

Refutes the rubric that 'Might makes Right'.

YHWH/God expected all His Chosen People TO READ what He inspired to be written.

The Pentateuch is the oldest Religious Book written in an Alephbet-Alphabet. Prior books were written in Cuneiform, Hieroglyphs etc......

YHWH forbade anyone from visualizing Him. No Images. No Idolatry.

He sanctioned only the written word.

This promulgates equality and openness.

An overarching Theme of the Pentateuch, and ensuing Books of the Bible is: Justice for all.

A distinguishing feature of the Pentateuch from other belief systems of the Time is its dominating Theme of: Righteousness,

Living a pious life and obeying written law was/is more important than winning Battles, honouring the King, or sacrificing to a local god.

Justice for all was a unique community standard in an era when the dominant principle was a raised and clenched fist.

Unlike other ANE Sagas, the Exodus begins with the people shackled slaves.

Unlike other ANE Sagas, Yahweh 'Chose' the people rather than the people choosing their god.
This rediscovery allows each to uncover and affirm each others’ role in the Divine Plan. The Kingdom of Yahweh is advanced and comes closer.

'You are my witnesses says YHWH/God' Isaiah 43:10
The People of Israel are YHWHs Servants, 'Chosen' to witness to the loving Creator and the Divine Plan for Humanity and the Cosmos.

The People of Israel = not just the Israelis, or Jews, but to all who affirm that Yahweh has made a valid Covenant with Abraham and his descendants and all who take up the task of World Redemption so that the covenant can be fulfilled.

For that is the purpose of making the covenant.

Xns and Muslims are recognized as Abrahams children when they purge themselves of Supersessionist claims and hatred of Jews.

To be True to its Witness, the People of Israel tell 3 Stories to the World, the rest of Humanity, in the presence of Yahweh and in the presence of their fellow Humans.

1: They tell the Story of Creation, the Divine Vision of an intended perfect World. Jew & Xn stake their existence that this World will come to be.

2: The Story of the Covenant, the process operating between a Divine-Human partnership whereby our imperfect World will be brought back to that state of Perfection.

3: The Story of Redemption-sometimes called: 'The End of Days'-'The Messiah Story'-which is the culmination and realization of the process.

At the end, Holistic perfection will be achieved.
Peace between Humans.

Between Humans and all the rest of Life, between all Life and Nature itself, and between all of the above and Yahweh.

Three Stories add up to one comprehensive Story: The Triumph of Life

Before Monotheism there had never been Religious Warfare.

The Polytheistic Cultures were live and let live about other culture Deities and often borrowed and share aspects.

The Polytheistic Deities were usually Local Deities, not Universe/Worldwide.

Polytheist had National gods, Local gods, family gods and personal gods, even their pet animals had gods.

Abstract Ethical Monotheism was a Major Advance along the road to Enlightenment, but came at a high cost.

Abstract Ethical Monotheism encouraged people to think in new ways. An Abstract Ethical Monotheistic Creator Being not tied to a concrete Image/Picture is a very Abstract Concept..

Abstraction is a crucial component of Logical Reasoning and its use can liberate people from superstition.

Devotion to an Abstract Deity has a Heavy price.

If everyone agrees there is only one, true, Living Creator Being, and different groups conceive of it in different ways, then whose perception of that Deity is the correct one?

Examine each groups’ values and praxis.

Different perceptions have inspired some groups to wage war and engage in forced conversions.

This never occurred in Polytheistic Cultures.

They had many wars but for the usual mundane reasons, Land, Treasure, Women, Power over others for the sake of Power alone, but they never waged Religious War.

One effect of an Alphabetic based Abstract Ethical Monotheism is the brain is using a new abstract, linear, sequential, and reductionist means of communication which moves people who learn it and use it into a Left Brain, Masculine Mode, rather than the usual Pictographic, Feminine Right Brain Mode.

The Aleph/Alphabet subliminally coaxes users to be intolerant of other Iconic Systems of Beliefs.

This is illuminated in the Ten Commandments.

As stated before, Judaism is the first religion to be based upon universal literacy, the written word.

When Moses came down from his meet and greet with YHWH on the mountain, the multitude had fashioned an Idol/Golden Calf, this so upset Moses he dropped the two stone Tablets upon which YHWH/God had written the ten commandments.


Allegorically: In the first confrontation between Image and Written Word, both were destroyed.

As the story goes, Moses returned to the Mountain Top and Yahweh provided him with another set.

The 10 Commandments; The first four Commandments are for the Recognition and service/Worship of YHWH/God, the remaining six focus on our fellow humans, loving and serving them.

The Commandment to Honour Both Father and Mother elevates and recognizes the importance and status of Women in the Family Group.

Love your neighbour is not one of the Ten but appears in the Torah/Instruction, Leviticus 19:18.

The last six commandments are not unusual, and found in other Codices of Laws, The First four Commandments are Unique.

Each one of the first four commandments encourages Alphabetic Literacy by rejecting the Right Brains way of 'knowing'.

One effect of a new, abstract, linear, sequential and reductionist means of communication moves people who learn it into a Left Brain, Masculine Mode.

Social Engineering.

The Ethics they embody are more sophisticated than other contemporary Ancient Near East Cultures.

The First Commandment:

20:2 I am Yahweh thy Elohim, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.

20:3 Thou shall have no other elohim before me.

In one fell swoop demoted all other elohim/gods & goddesses to nothings.

Nothing personal, it was business.

The Meta-Message of the First Commandment is that Yahweh is the Master of the Universe, He is self-existent, and all other elohim/gods & goddesses are created beings, subservient to Him.

Psalm 82

82:1 Yahweh stands in the congregation of El; he judges among the elohim.

82:2 How long will you judge unjustly, and accept the persons of the wicked? Selah.

82:3 Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy.

82:4 Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked.

82:5 They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course.

82:6 I have said, You are elohim; and all of you are children of the most High.

82:7 But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.

82:8 Arise, O Yahweh, judge the earth: for thou shall inherit all nations.

All of Yahwehs’ Titles are masculine.

The First Commandment is a radical break with the Hebrews past environment. Moses and the Hebrews had left Egypt which was Polytheistic, alot of gods and goddesses worship.

Yahweh declares there is no worship of other gods or goddesses.

Perhaps the most radical sentence ever written.

The Second Commandment:

20:4 Thou shall not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:

20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I; Yahweh thy Elohim am a jealous Elohim, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

20:6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

No Graven Images, Icons or Idols, Statues.

Learning to think without Images is indispensable to Alphabetic Literacy. The Power formerly rendered to Images/Pictures is now transferred to the written word.

Make no Graven Images is a ban/restraint on Right Brain Pattern Recognition.

The Third Commandment:

20:7 Thou shalt not take the name of Yahweh thy Elohim in vain; for Yahweh will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.

Do not use Yahwehs Name vainly, with Malintent. Again; Left Brain.

Yahwehs first instruction to adam isto Name all the critters. Through Naming, Adam attains dominion over all the Earth. Naming confers meaning and order, moving Life from Chaos to Order.

To Name is to know, to know is to control. Order out of Chaos.

The Fourth Commandment:

20:8 Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.

20:9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:

20:10 But the seventh day is the Sabbath of thy Elohim: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

20:11 For in six days made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore blessed the Sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Seven Days are not a Natural Break Point in any of Earths Major Natural Rhythmic Cycles-Lunar-Solar, except the Quarter Moon.

This facilitates the learning of Arithmetic.

Leviticus 25:3-10 is about the Jubilee Years, the 50th,

No other Ancient Near East culture at that time had instructed the general population to compute complex time periods, this had formerly been the domain of the Priestly Castes.

The Time Commandment lays the foundation for the concept of Justice, a well developed sense of Linear Time is necessary to conceive of Punishment delayed and Rewards postponed.

Non-Literate Cultures are not as pre-occupied with the notion/concept of Justice as the Literate, because they do not conceive of time only as linear.

Non-Literate Societies tend to think of death as a passage to another World, not as a Day in Court.

Alphabets stretch out the sense of Time and make possible the awareness of the possibility of a retribution Time in the distant future.

A Judgement Day only occurs in Literate Cultures.

Alphabet Literate Cultures became aware of writing History in a Linear, Chronological sequencing of Events.

The fourth Commandments Mechanical/Sociological ramifications is instructing people to be aware of Passing Time.

This was the advent of the seven day week, and a day off every week.

A day off for ALL Humans, Free and Bond, and ALL Beasts of Burden one day a week and the Farmland to lay fallow every seven years to rejuvinate the enzymes in the ground.

This led to Sundials, waterclocks, Pendulums, Escape Mechanisms, Cogs, Gears, Calenders.

Time is a key function of the Left Brain.

Each of the First Four Commandments trains people in the ability to: Think Abstractly, linearly and sequentially.

Collectively, they produce a Mindset that enhances the use and facility of Alphabetic Literacy.

This Technology welded the small group into a cohesive and coherent Nation/Culture.

What occurred at/in Sinai was unique, the Authority of the Written Word superseded the authority of the Image.

Reiterating the Revolutionary Innovations that occurred at Mount Sinai:

1: Abstract Ethical Monotheism emerged,

2:Universal Codified Laws establishing Moral Ethics

3: The Alephbet-Proto Alphabet emerged. The Hebrews reduced thosands of Images/Hieroglyphs/Petroglyphs/Ideograms/Pictograms into two dozen Characters, enabling Universal Literacy

For the first time ever, Religion demanded the follower be Literate. It is Commanded the Fathers obtain Scrolls of the Torah and teach them to their children.

Moses Commanded; Thou shall read the Law before all Israel Deut-31:10,11

The Reading of the Torah remains the most sacred obligation of every Jew.

Yahweh was concerned, unlike other gods, about the actions of everyone of His people.

Yahweh actually cares.

If someone was cheating/exploiting widows and orphans, mistreating strangers and slaves.etc.......YHWH knew and became wrathful.

The polytheistic gods did not.

Yahweh in His written Laws provided preventive Medicine, unknown to Egypt and Mesopotamia.

He explicitly spelled out in excruciating detail and minutia exactly what He expected from each and every Israelite.

Each Israelite established a personal relationship with Yahweh.

All of Yahwehs Laws were written down and everybody knew them.

It was an absolute Judaic condition that every male was literate.

Ignorance of the Law was no defence.

The Hebrews were the first culture to universally embrace Alphabetic writing, the Torah is the first/oldest Religious Book written in an Alphabet.

The 10 Commandments were transmitted in a written Alephbetic form; Paleo-Hebrew.

Abstract letters/grammatical sequence/uniconsonantal phenomes.

The Alephbet/Alphabet introduced and enabled the possibility of Universal Literacy

So once upon a time in the Sinai Desert a radical new communication technology emerged that would forever change cultural perceptions and that the first people to utilize it would introduce fundamental principles and features underpinning Western Civilisation.

Historical Data: Proto-Sinaitic Alephbet=precursor of the Alphabet.

Discovered by Sir William Flinders Petrie, very early 20th century. Dated to: 1,800 BCE

Egyptian Coptic 2,000 years later/after

Tell el Armana Cache Phoenician 1,450 BCE letters from Canaanite Leaders to Akhenaton were scribed in Cuneiform

Akkadian Cuneiform in usage after Sumerian Conquest.

An amazing vortex of Science and History occurred in the Sinai that the worlds’ oldest alphabet was found where the Hebrew Nation had their seminal experience.

Yet another Unique Concept brought forth at Mount Sinai is the Concept of Free Will.

Throughout the Ancient Near East, Babylon, Egypt etc......humans 'believed their fate, destiny was in the hands of the gods.

The Sinaitic Covenant convinced the Israelites that every decision was theirs to make: Choose Life or Choose Death.

The choice between Right and Wrong was upon the individual. This beget the concept of Guilt, 'Guilty Conscious'; an internal Quality Control.

Moral Relativists may consider this an ambiguous area, but is it really?


Bottom Line of what occurred at Sinai, those many years ago, the Power that once had been given to pictures was transferred to written words.

The Power of the Right Brain was Transferred to the Left Brain.

The Alephbet/Alphabet is the Bibles Eminence Grise-The unsuspected power.



Superorganisms/memes compete, as one Entelechy rises, others fall.

Of all the Ancient Near East Superorganisms/Memes, only the Jews have survivied.

Alphabetic Literacy profoundly reconfigured the relationship between the Hebrews and their Deity and between the Hebrews and their neighbours. The other ANE cultures.

The Jews have an unshakable faith.

The Religious beliefs of the Sumerians, Babylonians, Hittites, Hyskos, Hurrians, Cretans, Mittani, Assyrians, Persians, Canaanites, Ugarites, Akkadians, Egyptians, Greeks, Phoenicians, Philistines, and Roman Belief Systems have diminished greatly and most have disappeared.
The Hebrew Faith has withstood the Viscitudes of times, surviving catastrophes that should have extinguished them.

Billy Ruben wrote:

true lilly wrote:
Hail warning across Victoria







5:08PM
Brigid OConnell

GOLF-ball sized hailstones have pelted Ballarat as central and southwest Victoria prepare for more wild weather.






Hailstones the size of golf balls have been reported in Ballarat.
The Daily Telegraph

Hail warning across VictoriaOctober 22, 2011
5:08PM[/size]
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/hail-warning-across-state/story-e6frf7jo-1226173885738

Look at the thread title...what does it say?...and you spam with Aussie shit,keep it for your threads.
This is Tiswas's thread,fuckoff,until you show this fine sub-continental lady the respect she fucking deserves,now Gyppo thief,pissoffCalling you a Gyppo thief to your face,is far more honest and brave than your mild,subtle racism,that everyone can see.Do not call them my Mob,you're not one of us...Gubba

Billy Ruben wrote:

true lilly wrote:Queen hails Duntroon

If you're that patriotic for Oztralia,why did your son study fucking useless philosophy,when he could be making mum proud,stick him in military college at Duntroon,go and fight a foreign war on foreign soil,dumb as you are I'd say,he'd get his head blown off,that's if he does'nt break on recruit course,crying for mummy,like I bloody did.If he cops it,you got all the attention a whore like you longs for,fuck Munchausen by Proxy Syndrome,you might even get a cuddle from Julia Gillard,on camera...Mmmmmm,hugged and kissed by poisonous snakes,you'd prefer...but of course,they're family...snake woman

Billy Ruben wrote:

true lilly wrote:

Told you Kharma exist.
That bullshit signature you got,dogspunk...you said that email was hacked and forged,sent out something that incriminated you? I did'nt think you'd be worried about looking like an idiot,you do that well,without being reminded.

I post as and who I am;
independent, unaffiliated
and happy to discuss the
things 'they' desperately
tell the world, to reject,
without consideration.
true-lilly@hotmail.com


What a load of shite...

a

Billy Ruben wrote:

true lilly wrote:Three horses victims of tail thief

Isn't that the queens sister,Princess Anne.

I can see why you like the royals,good (in)breeders,like yourself there Lulzy.

Personally,I would'nt wipe my arse with you or the royals...and by God,like you,they're extremely ugly.

Billy Ruben wrote:

Ciggy wrote:I see she's moved on from dogs to horses.

Cool!...still plenty of material to work with...



hmmm,that was a dud...try this then



Whhhattt!!!...I'm not hitting Porn Tube...



Whoooaaa...he's a goer,god,does'nt go easy sticking it in either...all,50 inches of him

Billy Ruben wrote:

le sabrage wrote:

Billy Ruben wrote:

Ciggy wrote:

Billy Ruben wrote:

Ciggy wrote:

true lilly wrote:[size=24]What The [b]HELL is "FOUNDATION"?

It's makeup used by pretty girls, which is why you know fuckall about it.

she does'nt believe in "sex within marriage",it's not kinky,quirky,screwed up enough to ignite her fire...

It apparently has to involve dogs. Not that there's anything right with that...

How did you guess???

WOOF<WOOF...they got long tongues and with the correct sauce...

Thankyou,thankyou very much.

Got a thousand of them.

Mr LeSabrage,you're not into visualising are you,well don't when you read my post about True Lilly...scared myself quite a few times with that one...it takes a few bongs to steady my shot nerves to make post on Sodlike these days...it was Lilly,not the cops that broke me...