In Defense of Adam Weishaupt and the Illuminati.

In Defense of Adam Weishaupt and the Illuminati.

Lucifer
Aeon of Light 2009.

A common conspiracy theory among the alleged 'anti-Illuminati' crowd is that the various establishment secret societies to have been infiltrated by proponents of Adam Weishaupt's proto-Anarchism (anti-statism & anti-Capitalism); I must point out that the Capitalist establishment, which is commonly referred to as the "International Dictatorship of Capitalism" are (to state the obvious) Capitalists committed to 'government (tyranny / police states)' whereas the Illuminati agenda was entirely revolutionary and opposed to all governments.

Skip ahead to 2009 and the Grand Master of English Masonry is the Queen's cousin, an aristocrat, a monarchist and a field marshall of the Capitalist State Terrorist army.

The behaviour of modern Masons is entirely that of a cult of Capitalists and statists; thus the thesis that the Illuminati have infiltrated Masonry and the Capitalist establishment is clearly false; if it were otherwise the anti-Communists and proponents of tyranny (government) here would be accusing the establishment of attempting to eradicate the Capitalist system and to bring an end to 'all' goverments.


The Objectives of the Illuminati

Lucifer
Aeon of Light, 2009



1) Abolition of monarchies and all ordered governments,

A great many Anarchists are actually ex-communists who have come to the conclusion that the 'problem of evil' is not simply due only to Capitalism but also to 'all forms of tyranny (government).' Nineteenth century Anarchists such as Bakunin recognised this flaw in Marxism and today all Anarchists oppose any form of tyranny.

Since this is not an Anarchist discussion group, and the Anarchists may be a minority here, I must point out that from an Anarchist perspective, almost all of the anti-Illuminati proponents who are not Anarchists, can be defined (to state the obvious) as 'statists' of one form or another.

David Icke for example is an overt State Capitalist, who in common with Marxists suggests that the issuing of money be nationalised and handed over to the police states; i.e., that instead of private bankers issuing Capital, that the state terrorist regimes themselves issue Capital, further empowering the military elites. This is not a solution which has anything to do with Anarchism, and would be little more than a palace revolution. Frankly I quite admire David Icke, but in terms of his counterproposal to Capitalism, it is simply reformed Capitalism, and in terms of his counterproposal to tyranny (government), it is simply reformed government.



(2) Abolition of private property and inheritances,

That is a common agenda among all Anarchists; Anarchist Communism is entirely a non Capitalist, non propertyist system of Communist Collectivism. To simply disempower the current economic elites and to leave them with their current wealth would not resolve very much.



(3) Abolition of patriotism and nationalism,

Nationalism is simply another mental disease like 'racism,' or 'tribalism;' it is a 'my nation / race / tribe is better than yours' attitude; we are 6 billion brothers and sisters here, we are one species, one people; the Anarchist agenda is to eradicate all borders and all nations.



(4) Abolition of family life and the institution of marriage, and the establishment of communal education of children.

There are the objectives of 'all' political Anarchists, with the possible exception of some of the Christian Anarchists who may have some objections to this, however the Christian Anarchists are a minority among political Anarchists, and there is no question of 'imposing' any moral lifestyle, whether it be monogamy or polyamory, however I am an advocate of sexual communism (polyamory); I simply believe that monogamy is unnatural and often the death of love itself; it is a major cause of heartbreak, human suffering and sexual boredom; it is entirely natural to wish to have more than one lover; generally monogamy is the desire to possess a person's soul and keep them as private property; marriage is little more than legalised prostitution, and especially in the Hindu and Islamic worlds, it simply reduces women to the status of slaves.



(5) Abolition of all religion

Here we are speaking only of organised religion. Anarchism is purely an economic / political philosophy and has no rigid metaphysics; people will always have 'spiritual' beliefs, but that is an entirely different matter to the curse of organised religion and the priesthood of Capital, which personally I consider to be purely a form of religious hypnosis; I share Icke's perspective on this that organised religion is generally a tool of the economic elites; an intelligent, educated, free thinking, free willed individual has no need of a religious master.

Critique and Counterproposal.

If a person wishes to criticise tyranny and Capitalism, and replace this with a different type of tyranny or Capitalism, they are simply 'prison builders,' and are playing into the hands of the current economic, political, military and relgious elites, irrespective of any good intentions.

If you are in favour of any form of tyranny (government) or any form of 'Capitalism (monetarism)' then I can assure you that you have much more in common with the current economic and religious masters of the world than I or any Anarchist has.

Since I have no new teachings, and am simply a traditional Anarchist, I speak on behalf of 'all' Anarchist Communists on matters of economics, Capital and government; with regards to matters of metaphysics, sexual morality and non economic matters, I speak purely on my own behalf.



Adam Weishaupt's Illuminati.

To restate, if the 5 objectives of the Illuminati were being carried out in the world, we would see an entirely different type of world; a world without government, Capital, private property or organised religion. Thus the general conspiracy theory view that the various secret societies of Capitalism are committed to Adam Weishaupt's objectives is entirely false.

Freemasonry which is probably the foremost of David Icke's targets is certainly a malevolent cult of Capitalists and proponents of the various police states and state terrorist / narco-terrorist regimes; their objective is entirely the opposite of the Anarchist Communist agenda which is the eradication of all police states.

If there was an attempt by Adam Weishaupt and his fellow revolutionaries to infiltrate Masonry and the various secret societies with an entirely revolutionary agenda, it is my analysis of modern history that this attempt entirely failed, and that the current agenda of the economic elites is entirely a Capitalist agenda and that of a world Capitalist police state.

Thus I conclude that the position taken by David Icke and other conspiracy theorists, which is that the world is ruled by the philosophical inheritors of the Adam Weishaupt's Illuminati is entirely false; the position taken by all Communists that we live under the enslavement of the International Dictatorship of Capitalism, is however entirely correct; the current 'New World Order' agenda spoken of by George Bush Sr and others is entirely an anti-Communist, pro-Capitalist, pro-statist world order and entirely the anti-thesis of the agenda of Adam Weishaupt and that of all living Anarchists.


The Non-Poverty of Correct Politics and Philosophy

Philosophers have the power to change the present and future history, 100, 1000 and 10,000 years from now when the tyrants and kings of this age have long been forgotten and despised; the sword of the philosopher is the sword of the mouth; words are weapons of war, and more rivers of blood may flow from the pens of philosophers than any tyrant or general.

Words fill this forum and words seem cheap and ammunition expensive, but propaganda is the first stage of war.

The poverty of philosophy is limited to the philosophy of the pacifists and reformers who wish to change some law or other or 'tinker' with the evils of Capitalism and tyranny. The Capitalist and legalist who requires some kind of reformed police state (a reformed dictatorship of Capital) argues 'we must have a law for this and a law for that' or perhaps some palace revolution and a different type of dictatorship of Capital. Such is the poverty of the slave.

Revolutionary Propaganda is the first stage of war; Physics is the real art of War.

Apocalyptic War shall put an end to the endless words of the reformers of Capital and tyranny; your laws of slavery and submission shall pass away; all governments shall fall; all nations shall fall.

"Until the last tyrant is strangled with the entrails of the last priest" there shall never be peace and there 'must' never be peace, for such peace would only once again be paid with the price of submission and slavery.

The 'New World Order' of the Capitalists shall be swept away in the forthcoming global apocalyptic guerilla war, however the 5 key points of the Illuminati revolution shall never pass away and shall in time be fuliflled.

Love and Light

Lucifer
Blasphemy, Heresy, War, Revolution, etc.
Salvation at low, low prices. I guarantee to beat any price on salvation, or your money back in the afterlife.
144,000 virgins in the afterlife (over 2000 times the amount of virgins offered by the Muslims) offered to all anti-Capitalist, anti-Statist martyrs of the Final Revolutionary War of Economic Salvation.[/b]

Apocalyptic War, Fire, Plague, and Poisoned Waters
No mercy on they who deserve none.
Ordo ab chaos. Lux e tenebris.

The 1000 Year Revolution of Light.


"G is Grace, the Flaming Star is the Torch of Reason. Those who possess this knowledge are indeed Illuminati...........The human race will then become one family, and the world will be the dwelling of Rational Men.....This is the great object held out by this association; and the means of attaining it is illumination, enlightening the understanding by the sun of reason which will dispell the clouds of superstition and of prejudice. .....When man lives under government, he is fallen, his worth is gone, and his nature tarnished." Adam Weishaupt



[/QUOTE]


See also:

What Is Communist Anarchism? Alexander Berkman (1929) on: [URL="http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/anarchist_archives/bright/berkman/comanarchism/whatis_toc.html"]http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/anarchist_archives/bright/berkman/comanarchism/whatis_toc.html[/URL]

and:


See also: What is Anarchism? Capital, Property, Will and Law., Lucifer (2009) on: [URL="http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=62778"]http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=62778[/URL][/QUOTE]

I Would Certainley Concurr That One Of The Greatest Documents Ever Produced,
Was The Declaration Of Independance...

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal,
that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights,
that among these are Life,
Liberty,
and the pursuit of Happiness.



Wasn't George Washington Supposed To Be Adam Weishaupt...???

The real Lucifer would never have confused the plural of "proponent" with a contraction of "proponent is".

I declare a fraud.

Ciggy wrote:The real Lucifer would never have confused the plural of "proponent" with a contraction of "proponent is".

I declare a fraud.

Who Is That Chap...

I Have Not Seen Him Before...!!!

Kallisti, Damn'd Sod..!!! wrote:

Ciggy wrote:The real Lucifer would never have confused the plural of "proponent" with a contraction of "proponent is".

I declare a fraud.

Who Is That Chap...

I Have Not Seen Him Before...!!!

A LEDGE character, hehe:

Ciggy wrote:The real Lucifer would never have confused the plural of "proponent" with a contraction of "proponent is".

I declare a fraud.

You are obviously waiting for a Luciferian with perfect spelling, English grammar and sentence construction.

I, and indeed many other Anarchists and Thelemites are not going to be able to meet your very high expectations.

Lux.

Lucifer wrote:

Ciggy wrote:The real Lucifer would never have confused the plural of "proponent" with a contraction of "proponent is".

I declare a fraud.

You are obviously waiting for a Luciferian with perfect spelling, English grammar and sentence construction.

I, and indeed many other Anarchists and Thelemites are not going to be able to meet your very high expectations.

Lux.

Oh OH...!!!

I Feel The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown Down...!!!



This Could Get Very Interesting, Or Not...!!!

An Intellectual Discussion Without Debate,

Is Like A Farmer Without A Plough And All That...!!!

So nice to have a DECENT FORUM MEMBER HERE.

Kallisti, Damn'd Sod..!!! wrote:

Lucifer wrote:

Ciggy wrote:The real Lucifer would never have confused the plural of "proponent" with a contraction of "proponent is".

I declare a fraud.

You are obviously waiting for a Luciferian with perfect spelling, English grammar and sentence construction.

I, and indeed many other Anarchists and Thelemites are not going to be able to meet your very high expectations.

Lux.

Oh OH...!!!

I Feel The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown Down...!!!



This Could Get Very Interesting, Or Not...!!!

An Intellectual Discussion Without Debate,

Is Like A Farmer Without A Plough And All That...!!!

Well, Sod...!!! I rarely every feel the necessity to throw down the gauntlet among the array of "Post-Conspiracy, Lunatic-Fringe, Alternative-History" blasphemers and heretics, since such terms probably define most people here.

To subject others to criticism is totally in accord with human nature and not quite the same as a "fight," among religious fanatics.

Lux

Death and the eternity of Hell to all non "Post-Conspiracy, Lunatic-Fringe, Alternative-History Blasphemers and Heretics, etc."

Hey Lucifier, this ciggy person has a sense of his own importance but please carry on. As for me I am aware of all this Crowley stuff but Crowley does not impress me for he was someone who USED AND ABUSED PEOPLE.

Tiswas wrote:Hey Lucifier, this ciggy person has a sense of his own importance but please carry on. As for me I am aware of all this Crowley stuff but Crowley does not impress me for he was someone who USED AND ABUSED PEOPLE.

Hi Sunshine.

Sorry I don't seem to have a "send" button on my instant messages here, so I cannot reply to IM's.

Yes I spent a couple of days in the pub with Damn'Sod! and Thirdwave; my impression of both of them is that they are entirely thoughtful, intelligent and knowledgable human beings who are simply trying to figure out the vast array of ideas in the world of "conspiracy theory." My opinion of them is that they are both dangerous "Post-Conspiracy, Lunatic-Fringe, Alternative-History, heretics and blasphemers" and I do hope that they would both be kind enough to say the same about me.

Hey "Isle of White?"

We are almost neighbours.

Somerset is not so far in the Summertime.

With regards to Crowley, he is long gone. It is our world now. We have all been subjected to some form of abuse, but with Crowley it was at the hands of the Christians, so naturally (it seems to me) that as a response a person of his advanced intelligence and education would not submit, and thus he he transformed into an anti-Christian.

I think that David Icke probably spends a great deal of time reading books, researching and writing books, but that he is not really involved in the debate about the anti-Christian, anti-religious and anti-establishment writings that he puts out, so it isolates him to an extent.

Icke does not like Crowley, but I see them both as soul mates to an extent; I am generally critical of "some" of Icke's writings when he seems to lose it and goes into his "shape shifting reptilian" stuff, since I do not believe that; nor do I believe his "Moon is a Giant spaceshift" theory. He clearly has a problem with epistemology and he often claims that the testimony and theories of various persons must be treated as historical fact; further he seems to be a "State Capitalist" with regards to political and economic philosophy and has an undying belief in Capitalism; but I think that most Anarchists still admire him, despite certain ideological disagreements.

Lux

Tiswas wrote:So nice to have a DECENT FORUM MEMBER HERE.

You say that now kunt, but over on Ickes shithole you were saying you wanted this place ruined. What a two faced kunt you are.

Tiswas wrote:Hey Lucifier, this ciggy person has a sense of his own importance but please carry on. As for me I am aware of all this Crowley stuff but Crowley does not impress me for he was someone who USED AND ABUSED PEOPLE.

Used and abused, sounds like what you did to sodomite.

John Drake wrote:

Used and abused, sounds like what you did to sodomite.

So John, you have never had anal sex?

Lux

F uck off arse bandit.

John Drake wrote:F uck off arse bandit.

No I am not like that at all; but I tend to seek out the archetypal homophobes and taunt them.

Not a very convincing cover story.

Lucifer wrote:

Ciggy wrote:The real Lucifer would never have confused the plural of "proponent" with a contraction of "proponent is".

I declare a fraud.

You are obviously waiting for a Luciferian with perfect spelling, English grammar and sentence construction.

I, and indeed many other Anarchists and Thelemites are not going to be able to meet your very high expectations.

Lux.

It was Luciferians I had high expectations of. <<---ending a sentence with a preposition there to show that I'm "down"

The movie stereotype of them is that they have to be posh, their evil plots having long garnered earthly riches for their bloodlines, which in turn would afford them private schooling.

Lucifer wrote:Icke does not like Crowley, but I see them both as soul mates to an extent;

On that I wholly agree. Both legends in their own mind.

Lucifer wrote:
but I think that most Anarchists still admire him, despite certain ideological disagreements.

Lux

Count me as an anarcho-primitivist whose reaction to Icke alternates between the facepalm, and bursts of laughter.

John Drake wrote:F uck off arse bandit.

Say it like Father Jack in his "FECK OFF CUP!"

Ciggy wrote:

Lucifer wrote:Icke does not like Crowley, but I see them both as soul mates to an extent;

On that I wholly agree. Both legends in their own mind.

Both full of fu cking shat.

John Drake wrote:

Ciggy wrote:

Lucifer wrote:Icke does not like Crowley, but I see them both as soul mates to an extent;

On that I wholly agree. Both legends in their own mind.

Both full of fu cking shat.

That as well.

Ciggy wrote:
It was Luciferians I had high expectations of. <<---ending a sentence with a preposition there to show that I'm "down"

The movie stereotype of them is that they have to be posh, their evil plots having long garnered earthly riches for their bloodlines, which in turn would afford them private schooling.

Yes well a movie stereotype is a movie stereotype.



Lucifer is essentially an astrological archetype. Although often associated with Solar Deities (Light) and with other mythical archetypes such as Prometheus, Lucifer was originally the male deity associated with the Planet Venus. The Romans tended to have male - female astrological archetypes for their gods, rather than just one gender for each planet.

Venus of course rules both Libra and Taurus, so an astrologer would be expected to argue that all male persons who have planets in Libra or Taurus will have some sort of Luciferian qualities. I don't really want to get into a discussion on the pros and cons of astrology, since I am both a sceptic and scholar (student) of astrology, but sufficient to say that the Luciferian / Venetian archetype is part of the human psyche, and has malefic and benefic qualities, as does Saturn (Satan) which rules Capricorn, but if I were to say that all persons with planets in Capricorn have "Satanic" qualities, this would be misunderstood, since Saturn also has benefic and malefic qualities.

The Christian use of the term "Satan (Saturn)" seems to refer only to the malefic qualities of Saturn (death, destruction, judgement, the Grim Reaper, etc) as a deity who judges the Christian god as evil and seeks his destruction, so in this respect I must concede to trying to be a "Satanic" archetype as far as the Christians are concerned. And as far as being Luciferian / Venetian, that is again simply archetypes which I seem to relate to.

Count me as an anarcho-primitivist whose reaction to Icke alternates between the facepalm, and bursts of laughter.

Well Anarcho-primitivism seem to me to be a rather regressive ideology; I tend to think that the world is a far better place with science and technology; tractors seem a much better way to plough a field and than oxen and medical science seems much preferable to using witch doctors; similarly the Internet is a much better way to commuicate than writing on Papyrus.

Personal note to each Icke fan individually:
You are by far the dumbest, most pathetic piece of maggot eatin' shit that has every slid from a human being's hairy ass.

Death to the Woo World Order..

David Icke.

Your signature suggests that you have a very low opinion of him. With regards to David Icke, certainly his historical method is more than just questionable; he has a habit of stating historical conspiracies and theories as if they were fact; he also relates the questionable testimony of others as if fact. This has produced his "Shape Shifting Reptilian" and "Moon is a spacecraft" theories.

It is possible to agree with 99 statements a person makes and disagree with the 100th statement without then having to attack the other 99 statements. I tend to think of Icke as part of the global awakening and resistance to the International Dictatorship of Capitalism; his providential value is not in the errant claims he makes but in the claims he makes which provide a rather good analysis of the current dictatorship.

I first read David Icke's "Alice in Wonderland" in 2002 and it was probably the best analysis in print of the 911 attacks that I came across, and even today it is a "classic" work. Such publications are entirely necessary in my judgement to create the conditions for revolution, and this requires a total hatred of the current dictatorship and an understanding of their terrorist military strategy.

]

I think it was around 2001 when I first read Icke's "Biggest Secret" and frankly while the "Shape shifting reptilian" stuff may have caused many to simply bin the book and write off Icke, it did not have the same effect on me, since I have a lifetime of experiences which allow me to personally relate to such phenomena; however with regards to my own experiences I readily admit that they were caused by a lifetime of heavy psychoactive abuse; thus persons trasnforming into reptiles, demons, little green (purple, white or yellow) men, etc., etc., all come within the possibility of what the human mind can perceive when in an advanced state of paranoia and suffering from the effects of powerful psychoactives.

]

David Icke's "Son of God" Messianic proclamations seem to have been a result of DMT (Ayahuasca) ingestion. Personally I have not yet experienced Ayahuasca (though I do intend to); I have probably, almost certainly tried DMT, but I cannot be totally certain since I was commonly ingesting, smoking and "sticking up my nose" various powders offered to me, but I am quite familair with the use and even cultivation of various similar substances.



Frankly if a person is occasionally living in a DMT (or similar psychoactives) induced state, I would think it to be quite normal that they would claim to be the son (or daughter) of god, and have many strange metaphysical ideas and an advanced Messianic complex; such substances are considered sacramental (sacred mind) for a reason.

It has often been said that all Communists tend to have Messianic complexes (they want to save the world), whereas the religionists tend to represent the anti-thesis of a Messianic complex, since they want someone else to save them and essentially have a "slave complex." Thus I find I am more able to relate to the person with the advanced "Messianic" complex which sacramental substances produce.

New World Order.

With regards to the "Woo World Order," the "New World Order" is simply what Communists would refer to as the "International Dictatorship of Capitalism" and there is no question in my mind that the proponents of International Capitalism are evangelical, militant, genocidal, apocalyptic and intent on the global holocaust of all militant resistance and the total enslavement of humanity under Capitalism.

Unfortunately many of the alleged opponents of this Capitalist World Order are themselves ideological Capitalists, and this confuses the matter greatly; it is rather like having numerous Capitalist political parties who all oppose the Capitalist government and who seek to tinker around with Capitalism and have the Capitalists reform themselves somewhat; rather than seeking the total eradication of Capitalism. The phenomenon which has emerged on the Internet since 911 which is called the "911 Truth movement" and the "Anti-NWO" crowd almost all come under the description of "Capitalist Reformers." Personally I tend to support the "911 Truth Movement" and the "anti-NWO" crowd for the same reasons that the Americans supported the Muslims in Afghanistan when they were fighting the Soviets. It is an "Opposition by all means necessary" perspective.

The Messianic Complex & "Beyond the 5 sense reality."



Unfortunately I am also guilty of having a rather advanced Messianic complex and of living for many years in a psychoactive haze. Much of my Internet site was developed and put together between 1996 to 2002, and when I go back read some of the essays I wrote, much of seems to be rather incomprehenisble, since I have in the last year or two cut down dramatically my intake of such substances.

Originally back in 1996-7 there were two of us, we were both good friends in the real world who each had Messianic Internet sites and we would attack each other daily on Internet discussion groups, each proclaiming ourselves to be the Messiah and the introducer of "Final Law" and each with different execution (genocide really) lists; it was of course an anti-religious satire, but unfortunately the drugs got the better of me and I am probably guilty of many similar delusions which has afflicted the post DMT David Icke.

Lux
Blasphemy, Heresy, War, Revolution, etc.
Ordo ab chaos.

Lucifer wrote:
The Christian use of the term "Satan (Saturn)" seems to refer only to the malefic qualities of Saturn (death, destruction, judgement, the Grim Reaper, etc) as a deity who judges the Christian god as evil and seeks his destruction, so in this respect I must concede to trying to be a "Satanic" archetype as far as the Christians are concerned. And as far as being Luciferian / Venetian, that is again simply archetypes which I seem to relate to.

This is a common misnomer of pseudoetymology that one gets from reading too much Jabba Chins Maxwell. "Satan" comes from the Semitic "Shaytan", "Adversary", which is associated with a Hamitic root word "ST" from which the Egyptians also derived "Set". On the Hamitic side of the etymology the meaning becomes more one of a gnostic dualism, the darkness cast by the light, and so forth. Set was there to oppose Osiris as a matter of.. the fact that Osiris existed. Semitic rubes tended not to understand the finer points of this Egyptian philosophy though, and ascribed more of a crude "all things bad" associate with it, even though in the Judaism from which Christianity sprang, there was no concept of a proper-named "Shaytan" as an actual entity--rather, it was a generic term for anything in the world that posed itself against the glory of their Yahweh. (The dualism crept into Christianity through both Egyptian gnosticism, and Persian Mithraism, the concept of an equal playing field between an "absolute good" and an "absolute evil", a yin-yang flipped sideways into a charicature of itself!)

The Roman Saturn has no etymological association with the pseudo-judean "Shaytan". Latin <> Hebrew.

Lucifer wrote:
Well Anarcho-primitivism seem to me to be a rather regressive ideology; I tend to think that the world is a far better place with science and technology; tractors seem a much better way to plough a field and than oxen and medical science seems much preferable to using witch doctors; similarly the Internet is a much better way to commuicate than writing on Papyrus.

The medical mafia with their slow-kill murdering drugs? Send me to the witch doctor.

The Internet? My oh my how did we ever survive before 1995. Maybe got up off our arses and talked face to face. Such a tragedy.

Plowing fields itself is something I disagree with, so even the oxen are too high-tech: let's just plant some fruit trees and gather, maybe sneak a few eggs away from the hens from time to time.

Technology is power and power corrupts. Show me a species that can handle the power without abusing it, and I'll agree that species should be entrusted with it.

Lucifer wrote:

Personal note to each Icke fan individually:
You are by far the dumbest, most pathetic piece of maggot eatin' shit that has every slid from a human being's hairy ass.

Death to the Woo World Order..

David Icke.

Your signature suggests that you have a very low opinion of him.

Haha, an even lower one of his mindless questionless critical-thinking-less zombie following.

Lucifer wrote:
With regards to David Icke, certainly his historical method is more than just questionable; he has a habit of stating historical conspiracies and theories as if they were fact; he also relates the questionable testimony of others as if fact. This has produced his "Shape Shifting Reptilian" and "Moon is a spacecraft" theories.

Yes.

Lucifer wrote:
It is possible to agree with 99 statements a person makes and disagree with the 100th statement without then having to attack the other 99 statements. I tend to think of Icke as part of the global awakening and resistance to the International Dictatorship of Capitalism; his providential value is not in the errant claims he makes but in the claims he makes which provide a rather good analysis of the current dictatorship.

A system is a system. So long as there is a system, it will be corrupt. Yes, he favours one of those flighty woo age "resource based economies" akin to the Zeitgeist Venus Project nonsense, and it will be yet another system, a different cage for people with prettier coloured bars, how nice. Excuse me for not applauding and proclaiming him the fooking Messiah as he parrots Rockefeller's Agenda 21.

Lucifer wrote:
I first read David Icke's "Alice in Wonderland" in 2002 and it was probably the best analysis in print of the 911 attacks that I came across, and even today it is a "classic" work. Such publications are entirely necessary in my judgement to create the conditions for revolution, and this requires a total hatred of the current dictatorship and an understanding of their terrorist military strategy.

]

My problem is with the word "current". Russian peasants fell for that gimmick, as I recall. How about we switch it to "any"? Mmm?

Lucifer wrote:
I think it was around 2001 when I first read Icke's "Biggest Secret" and frankly while the "Shape shifting reptilian" stuff may have caused many to simply bin the book and write off Icke, it did not have the same effect on me, since I have a lifetime of experiences which allow me to personally relate to such phenomena; however with regards to my own experiences I readily admit that they were caused by a lifetime of heavy psychoactive abuse; thus persons trasnforming into reptiles, demons, little green (purple, white or yellow) men, etc., etc., all come within the possibility of what the human mind can perceive when in an advanced state of paranoia and suffering from the effects of powerful psychoactives.

]

Lucifer wrote:
David Icke's "Son of God" Messianic proclamations seem to have been a result of DMT (Ayahuasca) ingestion. Personally I have not yet experienced Ayahuasca (though I do intend to); I have probably, almost certainly tried DMT, but I cannot be totally certain since I was commonly ingesting, smoking and "sticking up my nose" various powders offered to me, but I am quite familair with the use and even cultivation of various similar substances.



Frankly if a person is occasionally living in a DMT (or similar psychoactives) induced state, I would think it to be quite normal that they would claim to be the son (or daughter) of god, and have many strange metaphysical ideas and an advanced Messianic complex; such substances are considered sacramental (sacred mind) for a reason.

It's also not without reason that the more mature mystical traditions wouldn't hand the psychoactives out to "just anyone". A candidate would have to display a certain ability to handle the experiences they were about to have, without running off wearing turquoise trackies and trying to assemble a harem of "biological energy clusters" who turn out to be dolphin-kissing gold-diggers. And talking about the hallucinations as if they were the Saxe-Colberg-Gotha crime family. With a straight face.

Lucifer wrote:
It has often been said that all Communists tend to have Messianic complexes (they want to save the world), whereas the religionists tend to represent the anti-thesis of a Messianic complex, since they want someone else to save them and essentially have a "slave complex." Thus I find I am more able to relate to the person with the advanced "Messianic" complex which sacramental substances produce.

Relate to him all you want. He still won't give you a cut of the Tennents Super fund.

Lucifer wrote:
New World Order.

With regards to the "Woo World Order," the "New World Order" is simply what Communists would refer to as the "International Dictatorship of Capitalism" and there is no question in my mind that the proponents of International Capitalism are evangelical, militant, genocidal, apocalyptic and intent on the global holocaust of all militant resistance and the total enslavement of humanity under Capitalism.

Piscean Age Order. That which is "New" is Aquarian. You will be faced with an entirely different sort of dick-tater-ship in the years ahead. The simplest yet most effective trick they'll pull off will be the way they dissociate it from "Capitalism", to get the likes of you onto the bandwagon. Will you be even remotely curious as to why the resources of the world didn't suddenly free up to public use after the evil Capitalists will have been dealt with?

Lucifer wrote:
Originally back in 1996-7 there were two of us, we were both good friends in the real world who each had Messianic Internet sites and we would attack each other daily on Internet discussion groups, each proclaiming ourselves to be the Messiah and the introducer of "Final Law" and each with different execution (genocide really) lists; it was of course an anti-religious satire, but unfortunately the drugs got the better of me and I am probably guilty of many similar delusions which has afflicted the post DMT David Icke.

Lux
Blasphemy, Heresy, War, Revolution, etc.
Ordo ab chaos.

It's all fun and games until someone starts charging 3 quid for emails and setting up discussion forums that run like FEMA camps.

Ciggy wrote:

This is a common misnomer of pseudoetymology that one gets from reading too much Jabba Chins Maxwell. "Satan" comes from the Semitic "Shaytan", "Adversary", which is associated with a Hamitic root word "ST" from which the Egyptians also derived "Set". On the Hamitic side of the etymology the meaning becomes more one of a gnostic dualism, the darkness cast by the light, and so forth. Set was there to oppose Osiris as a matter of.. the fact that Osiris existed. Semitic rubes tended not to understand the finer points of this Egyptian philosophy though, and ascribed more of a crude "all things bad" associate with it, even though in the Judaism from which Christianity sprang, there was no concept of a proper-named "Shaytan" as an actual entity--rather, it was a generic term for anything in the world that posed itself against the glory of their Yahweh. (The dualism crept into Christianity through both Egyptian gnosticism, and Persian Mithraism, the concept of an equal playing field between an "absolute good" and an "absolute evil", a yin-yang flipped sideways into a charicature of itself!)

The Roman Saturn has no etymological association with the pseudo-judean "Shaytan". Latin <> Hebrew.

I am not suggesting that Saturn has an "etymological" connection with Set or Satan, however the religions and archetypal gods of the Mediterranean cannot help but have similarities, since the Mediterranean ports were in ancient times the modern equivalent of airports, and the cultures of the Mediterranean were not hermetic and isolated kingdoms. When one compares the Greek gods to the Roman gods one can also make many comparisons which are not etymological. For example there is no etymological comparison between the Greek Aphrodite, the Roman Venus and the Egyptian goddess Hathor, but comparisons are made due to certain similarities of the archetypes as opposed to the sound of their names. It is commonly suggested that much of the Roman pantheon was borrowed from the Greek pantheon, due to numerous mythological and archetypal similarities, however these are not necessarily etymological similarities since the names of the gods were changed for a Roman audience.

Similarly the Roman god Saturnus is often compared with the Greek deity Chronos and the Egyptian Set; these are not etymological comparisons. Certainly "Satan" is not a god who represents universal evil in ancient Judaism, but has come to represent such an archetype in Christianity, and the Jesus / Satan and Horus / Set comparison seems to draw on the same kind of Solar Deity vs. the God of darkness and night comparisons.

Saturnus of course is the astrological archetype which rules over the darkest period of winter when the Sun is in Capricorn, whose planetary ruler is Saturn; Saturn's archetypal qualities are certainly often considered the darkest and most malefic qualities of all planets, despite also having many benefic qualities, for death, judgement, destruction of the old and the rebirth of the new are all entirely natural aspects which are typified by Saturn as the Grim Reaper.

The medical mafia with their slow-kill murdering drugs? Send me to the witch doctor.

The Internet? My oh my how did we ever survive before 1995. Maybe got up off our arses and talked face to face. Such a tragedy.

Plowing fields itself is something I disagree with, so even the oxen are too high-tech: let's just plant some fruit trees and gather, maybe sneak a few eggs away from the hens from time to time.

Technology is power and power corrupts. Show me a species that can handle the power without abusing it, and I'll agree that species should be entrusted with it.

Well even prior to the modern technological revolution, throughout history there has still been the development of military technology, siege warfare and machines, etc. It is simply not practical to suggest that humanity abandon the forging of metal into swords, arrows and ploughs; though certainly human beings with miltiary technology can rarely if ever be trusted with it. Unfortunately with the development of nuclear weapons and the upcoming DEW (Direct Energy) weapons, such as microwave technology, this is set to replace all forms of modern warfare; future wars will likely by much worse than anything in human history that we have a record of.

With regards to getting rid of oxen and just planting a few seeds here and there; we have a planet of 6 billion people; it is simply too late for everyone to return to hunter gathering mode; that would by perfectly OK in a planet with a small population, but entirely inappropriate for such a large population.

Generally the model of agricultural and technological collectivism which I point to is the Cuban and Israeli (Kibbutz) model; despite both these systems existing within repressive police states, we at least have an approximate "Final Solution" in economic terms for the non miraculous feeding of the 6 billion.

Personally I thank the gods for dentists, doctors and modern agricultural science, transport and communications technologies, despite the numerous problems which Capitalism inflicts on such industries.

Haha, an even lower one of his mindless questionless critical-thinking-less zombie following.

I have come across very few individuals who are entirely uncritical of David Icke. Are you quite sure that "these mindless questionless critical-thinking-less zombie following" David Icke cultists exist? I have attended meetups from the David Icke forum in the UK, and they generally can be defined their drunken revelry and interesting conversations; if there is a David Icke cult whose cultists worship him as a solar deity and are unquestioning of his every utterance, I have not come across it; however I do think it entirely healthy to question the lack of critical thinking of the "Moon Matrix" proponents who seem to have taken this belief on board despite the lack of evidence.

A system is a system. So long as there is a system, it will be corrupt. Yes, he favours one of those flighty woo age "resource based economies" akin to the Zeitgeist Venus Project nonsense, and it will be yet another system, a different cage for people with prettier coloured bars, how nice. Excuse me for not applauding and proclaiming him the fooking Messiah as he parrots Rockefeller's Agenda 21.

The Venus project does not exist in the real world; it is simply a utopian idea of a future world based on the Anarcho-Communist and Syndicalist ideology; nothing new really; however it would require mass collective effort and the eradication of Capitalism to acheive.

My problem is with the word "current". Russian peasants fell for that gimmick, as I recall. How about we switch it to "any"? Mmm?

Well you are referring to the term I used, "current dictatorship" as opposed to "any dictatorship." Yes well of course replacing one dictator with another is the Marxist/ Leninist agenda, but I had my intellectual conversion from Trotskyism about a decade ago, so yes of course, resistance to "all dictatorships" and indeed "all governments" is part of the Anarchist agenda; unfortunately most of the anti-NWO crowd just want a new set of economic and military Masters.

It's also not without reason that the more mature mystical traditions wouldn't hand the psychoactives out to "just anyone". A candidate would have to display a certain ability to handle the experiences they were about to have, without running off wearing turquoise trackies and trying to assemble a harem of "biological energy clusters" who turn out to be dolphin-kissing gold-diggers. And talking about the hallucinations as if they were the Saxe-Colberg-Gotha crime family. With a straight face.

Well I was out in India in my youth, propelling myself out of the physical world on a cocktail of opium, marijuana and LSD, at the same time as the Japanese cult leader Shoku Asahara got his LSD revelations that he was the Messiah; he went on to devise a masterplan on how to initiate Armageddon and take over the world; he is most well known for his Sarin attacks on the Tokyo subway, and less well known for his attempt to purchase weapons grade plutonium from the Soviets (an purchase which may well have taken place). I would not suggest at all that psychoactives have an exclusively benefic effect; never the less restricting their useage has an even worse effect. It seems to me that the Anglo-American state terrorists / narco terrorists are not anyway anti-narcotics; on the contrary they are pro-narcotics; they just want to be able to control their distribution and generate trillions of dollars for their black military budgets. Personally I believe that all Anglo-American state terrorist collaborators should be forcibly drip fed LSD and heroin for a few years until they come to their senses.

Relate to him all you want. He still won't give you a cut of the Tennents Super fund.

Yes well he does live in the realm of "conspiracy theory Capitalism" and publishing which has similarities with "National Enquirer" type journalism where often the more "outrageous claims" one makes, the more one's publications sell.

Unfortunately the world of publishing has always been like that, which is why David Icke outsells Acharya S., just as in the UK the "News of the World (our sex scandal tabloid)" outsells "The Independent." Similarly in the US, I recall seeing the "National Enquirer" with headlines such as "Aliens ate my Baby" and other UFO hysteria; such publications will always outsell Chomsky in a nation of political illiterates, most of whom barely have sufficient literacy skills to read a cornflakes packet and who did not have a problem with a genocidal Christian US president such as George "God told me to invade Iraq" Bush who apparently hears voices in his head from God demanding genocide and Capitalist imperialism.

Piscean Age Order. That which is "New" is Aquarian. You will be faced with an entirely different sort of dick-tater-ship in the years ahead. The simplest yet most effective trick they'll pull off will be the way they dissociate it from "Capitalism", to get the likes of you onto the bandwagon. Will you be even remotely curious as to why the resources of the world didn't suddenly free up to public use after the evil Capitalists will have been dealt with?

Well the Aquarian Age will hopefully represent much of the benefic qualities of Aquarius which we have seen emerge since The Enlightement, which is the prevailence of human reason.

It is only the Marxists who consider the problems of the world to be predominately due to Capitalism; we have in ancient times had non Capitalist tyrannies which were simply slave societies; it is not sufficient to eradicate Capitalism unless tyranny (government) can also be eradicated; fortunately the emergence of modern military technologies are such that I doubt that any tyranny (government) will be able to survive, since their many enemies, victims and slaves will be able to eradicate them in the blink of an eye.

It's all fun and games until someone starts charging 3 quid for emails and setting up discussion forums that run like FEMA camps.

Yes of course, but this is rather how the Internet began; I still recall AOL charging for e-mails in the early 90's and since I was subscribed to numerous discussion groups, it did get rather expensive at times. There are still numerous discussion groups which "are" run like FEMA camps, but then again there are those which are not.

Certainly the censorship of the Internet is a major issue; Austrialia and China have systems which filter Internet content as do Islamic states such as Saudi Arabia and Iran, the latter of which has one of the world's biggest Internet blog-spheres whose participants are cut off from much of the outside world

It is certainly possible for any government to censor the Internet, but for the moment we have access to human history's greatest research library; this also includes a lot of bizzare conspiracy theories, and the study of conspiracy theories has become an entire subject in itself; unfortunately it is often those with very bizarre conspiracy theories regarding human origins and human spirituality (such as the Nazis or numerous other religious fanatics) who generate mass appeal and who have the power to change history, which is why it is important to subject them to the highest authority of human reason.

Unfortunately when one combines the historical analysis with the study of US state terrorism / narco-terrorism with the "Moon is a Spacecraft" type theories, then both views become stereotyped as bizarre conspiracy theories, despite the fact that there is no evidence that the Moon is a spacecraft and there is abundant evidence on US military state terrorism / narco-terrorism.

My Scarlet Woman is nagging me, as we are just about to leave for a few days to go to Scotland, so I will have to discontinue all discussions in the meantime.

Love and Light

Lux
Fire, Plague and Poisoned Waters.

"I will beat any price on salvation from competing religions and cult messiahs, or your money back in the afterlife, plus 144,000 virgins. Low, low prices. I will not be undercut."