Breaking Bad: Was Gus a Good Guy?

true lilly wrote:...there's a debate in this house...funny though, we agree,
Walt was inherently bad, and Jessie was inherently good,
but as to Gustavo Fring, opinion varies; from Devil to God,
and all mortals between.

Hope some here may be able to add some debate ending points.

Throughout the ages, many spiritual traditions, in their alleged zeal to experience the
spiritual realms have turned to the usage of mind/body altering chemicals. The decision
to follow this path is usually based on a desire to experience what is beyond the
conscious mind. The hope of the practitioners of this path is that in the induced, altered
state of consciousness they will be afforded a closer look into the spiritual world, and or
receive "powers" that could be used for, what we must define as, questionable
purposes.
While Kabbalah transverses many levels of altered states of consciousness, there is
never any reference to using any external chemical in order to achieve the prophetic
state. The prophetic state experienced by the prophet was achieved only after long
arduous training in the spiritual disciplines of prophetic Kabbalah. The results were
always ecstatic, but never intoxicating, nor hallucinogenic.
In Biblical times, the priests, who served in the Holy of Holies before the Divine
Presence, were forbidden to partake of anything could hinder their mental faculties, at
the time of their service.
In the Bible (Lev. 10:1-2), the story is told of Nadav, and Avihu, the two sons of the High
Priest Aharon, who when offering the ketoret incense before G-d, were said to have
offered "strange fire". Consequently, fire came forth from G-d, and they were both
burned alive in the presence of G-d. G-d then commands (v. 8-11) that the priests must
never enter their service intoxicated, (it is taught that the "strange fire", was a foreign
element within their bodies that defiled them before G-d's Presence). This abstinence is
an eternal commandment, for all times. The priests are told that this is a separation
between the sacred and the profane, the pure and the unclean. While the specific
reference is to alcohol use, it is obviously applicable to anything else that might interfere
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with the priest's ability to properly do his job. Whosoever would enter the presence of
G-d without full faculties is condemned to death, a penalty that G-d, Himself will carry
out.
Prophetic ecstasy was thus never a state induced by some external means. True
prophetic ecstasy is one of spiritual/psychological origin. This state, however, was
achieved only after long practices of stringent disciplines geared at successfully
educating the conscious mind how to correctly separate from the limitations of the
senses of the physical body. There could be no short cuts here. This had to be
accomplished in a very precise way to avoid the dangers of such separation, which
could be severe psychosis, or death.
This was the experience, recorded in the Talmud, Hagigah 14B, of the four men, who
entered the "Pardes". One looked around and went insane, one looked around and
apostates, one looked around and died. Only one entered and exited, in peace. If any
type of external chemical was introduced into the body of the aspirant during these
trials, even for the purpose of drawing closer to G-d, like Nadav and Avihu, one might
get a little too close, and not being properly aligned, be burnt up, alive.
Within my experience in Kabbalistic circles, I have known my Rabbis specifically to not
initiate anyone who has a history of hallucinogenic drug use. I was told, and have seen
with my own eyes, that when one approaches the true spiritual courts wherein which
G-d resides, one must be both, physically and psychologically grounded in the objective
reality of that experience. One misconception caused by a malfunction of brain
chemistry (brought on by drug use or abuse) can be the cause of devastating
psychological and spiritual problems.
In order to understand why the Torah of the Kabbalah is so adamant in the rejection of
consciousness altering chemicals, some introductory knowledge regarding true Jewish
Kabbalistic initiation is necessary. To begin with, Kabbalistic training is progressive.
Like the priesthood in the ancient Temple, training develops in stages. It must be
remembered that in Kabbalah, there are many avenues and levels of practice. Each
one of these levels is learned, mastered, tested, and only then practiced.
In the Mishna (Hagigah Ch. 2), the schools of Kabbalistic study are divided into three
sections of learning. First, there is the sitrei arayot (secrets of forbidden relationships),
generally; this is the study of the olamot, and the sefirot. These are the cosmic laws of
Torah and nature. Second, there is the Ma'aseh Bereshit (secrets of creation) which
deals with the manipulations of these cosmic laws of nature, through the manipulation of
the building blocks of creation, the letters of the Hebrew Aleph-bet. The third school,
considered to be the purest and most profound teachings of the Kabbalah, is Ma'aseh
Merkava (the work of the chariot). Ma'aseh Merkava is the experience of G-d's
presence, the purpose of which is for the reception of Divine inspiration and prophecy.
This was the level where Nadav and Avihu stood.
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In order to see how chemical usage can sabotage this progression of learning, we must
understand some more Kabbalistic basics. The Ba’al Shem Tov teaches (Ekev 35), that
the physical body is created in the image of, and correlates to the spiritual body. The
spiritual body is, of course, created in the image of, and correlates to the ten supernal
sefirot of Atzilut (Zoh. III, 73A). It is not the physical body that experiences G-d directly,
but rather the spiritual body.
The spiritual body, the source of the physical body, experiences G-d directly, and this
experience reverberates all the way down the line to the physical body and
consciousness. (The spiritual body being spoken of here is not the astral body referred
to in western mystical literature. The astral body, according to the Kabbalah (Zoh. II,
162B) is nothing other than that level of the physical body, which is made up of a higher
form of matter.) If the Kabbalist wishes to affect something in one's physical body, (as
in the case of healing) he is taught to go to the source of the problem, in the spiritual
body, i.e. the Neshama (Sefer Ba’al Shem Tov, Ekev, 2,7).
The Neshama congeals its interacting powers into a form that leads to the manifestation
of the physical human body. Therefore, the body is the outward expression of the
Neshama soul. At the same time, the Neshama of a person is a vessel for the holy
yehida, which is the spark of holiness and the connection between the human soul, and
G-d. It is called nishmata d’nishmata, the soul of the soul, in the language of the Zohar
(II, 118B).
The body is thus the vehicle for the Neshama, as the Neshama is the vehicle of the
yehida, which is the vehicle of the Shekhina. (Remember, vehicle in Hebrew, is
Merkava). Therefore, whatever affects one has an affect on all the others. Any
unnatural alteration of the body chemistry has a correlative effect upon the astral
chemistry. What happens in the body, both physical and astral affect one another. The
Neshama and what it contains can therefore be hindered from correctly manifesting its
light in the body.
The astral, spiritual and sefirotic plans all have objective reality to them, as does our
physical plane. One can artificially alter all the consciousness that one perceives. Yet,
the experiences therein are nothing but subjective, and thus only a shadowy reflections
of the truth. For example, if when in an altered state of consciousness, you decide to
stand in front of a speeding train, thinking yourself to be Superman, you will very quickly
realize that you are not.
Many people experimenting with mind-altering drugs feel themselves to be spiritual
supermen. They believe that they can side step the long, ardent details of spiritual
discipline. What they do not know is that what they are experiencing is not an objective
reality, but a subjective one. Such subjective truths are of no concern for the Kabbalist,
for such immature experiences are nothing but klipah (the glow that surrounds the true
light). Bluntly put, such experiences are lies..
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It is of interest to note that in his work, "Meditation and the Kabbalah", (Pg. 156) Rabbi
Aryeh Kaplan z’l refers to some esevim, (grasses) mentioned in the "Shoshana Yesod
Olam", a text on magical Kabbalah. He offers a possible interpretation that these
"grasses" refer to psychedelic drugs. Yet, there doesn't seem to be any Kabbalistic
authority who mentions esevim in this context. Esevim are widely spoken about in
Kabbalistic literature.
The Holy Zohar says that, "There is no grass or herb that grows in which G-d's wisdom
is not greatly manifested and which cannot exert great influence in heaven" and "If men
but knew the wisdom of all the Holy One, blessed be He, has planted in the earth, and
the power of all that is to be found in the world, they would proclaim the power of their Lrd
in His great wisdom" (Zoh. II, 80B). Yet, the best definition that can be ascribed to
the word Esevim is not "grasses", which is its literal interpretation, but rather medicinal
herbs.
Two texts on practical Kabbalah, Mareh Yeledim, and Abiyah Hidut, both have long
sections on Esevim. Together, both books cover over 100 different herbs and their
medicinal usage. Within all this, there is never mentioned, even one hint, to the usage
of any esev in a way, or for the purpose of altering consciousness, or drawing closer to
the spiritual world, or G-d.
In ancient Israel, the prophets, who were the masters of spiritual discipline were also
masters in herbal arts and healing. The use of herbs and natural healing was
widespread in Biblical times. The Talmud relates that in the days of King Hezekiah, the
Sefer Refuot, the Book of Healing had to be concealed because everyone was being
healed of everything and no one was dying.
The Zohar (II, 80B) says, "The Holy One has purposely hidden this wisdom from men
that they should not turn from His way by trusting in that wisdom alone, forgetting Him".
While much of this story might be legend, it does reveal, nonetheless, the existence of
the knowledge of an ancient Jewish knowledge of body chemistry.
The sectarian group known as the Essenes were also natural healers. According to
Encyclopedia Judaica (Vol. 6, pg. 900, in the name of G. Vermes), the word "Essene"
come from the Aramaic root "esen" which means to heal. Therefore, the title "Essenes"
means, "the healers". This would fit in with our historical knowledge of them from Philo,
and Josephus. Being they knew so much about medicinal herbs and medicines, maybe
they also knew of mind-altering chemicals. Yet, in whatever literature we have
regarding them, there is never any mention of any type of chemical usage for altering
consciousness.
I believe I can offer an answer as to why drug use might be a spiritual temptation.
Remember that the three levels of Kabbalistic learning are progressive. First, one is to
learn the outline of the prophetic universe, which are the sitrei arayot. One then
proceeds to learn the secrets of creation, Ma'aseh Bereshit. Only then can one proceed
and learn the secrets and source of Self, Ma'aseh Merkava, which is the pinnacle and
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ultimate acquisition of wisdom. Ma'aseh Merkava is not an easy path to walk. It
requires full devotion to ultimate truth, including the recognition, and rectification of the
dark side of the human self. This last step is one most do not succeed in achieving. In
order to make up for this loss of experience, many choose instead to receive a
substitute. This substitute is the personal subjective experience one receives from the
powers of the klipot. It is a shadow of the real thing but it is false.
Many learn the powers of Ma'aseh Bereshit, and abuse them as simple magic. It must
be remembered that manipulation of the laws of nature, which is all that any magic (or
Ma'aseh Bereshit) really is, is not a sign of any spiritual advancement. Magic is a
science like any other technology. Mental magic, alternate states of consciousness
follow the same biological/spiritual pattern. It is only impressive to the simple minded
who cannot understand things in their true depths.
As there are no shortcuts in physical bodybuilding, so there are no shortcuts with
spiritual soul building. Hallucinogenic chemicals are like spiritual steroids. In the short
run, they appear to bring results. Yet, in reality all they do is destroy the souls ability to
properly receive G-d's power through the biological channels that correlate to their
spiritual counterparts. What is left is a handicapped spiritual condition. One who is in
this condition still hungers for the true taste of spiritual nourishment, yet is unable to
receive it, due to the inability of his body to receive the light.
In such cases, out of desperation, many choose to receive from the dark side, rather
than not receive at all. Of course, what is received is not real. Yet, a filling illusion is
sometimes considered more desirable than an empty reality.
This is the result of those paths that do not properly channel G-d's light. They cause
themselves harm, and add insult to injury by drifting farther from the truth, instead of
rectifying the wrong.
According to the Torah, drug use for the purpose of spiritual gain is condemned. There
is no place for it.

true lilly wrote:...there's a debate in this house...funny though, we agree,
Walt was inherently bad, and Jessie was inherently good,
but as to Gustavo Fring, opinion varies; from Devil to God,
and all mortals between.

Hope some here may be able to add some debate ending points.

Ciggy wrote:

true lilly wrote:...there's a debate in this house...funny though, we agree,
Walt was inherently bad, and Jessie was inherently good,
but as to Gustavo Fring, opinion varies; from Devil to God,
and all mortals between.

Hope some here may be able to add some debate ending points.

Gus was like a smart, non-spamming, non-Oz-obsessed version of you. They didn't firebomb his car either.

Billy Ruben wrote:

Ciggy wrote:

true lilly wrote:...there's a debate in this house...funny though, we agree,
Walt was inherently bad, and Jessie was inherently good,
but as to Gustavo Fring, opinion varies; from Devil to God,
and all mortals between.

Hope some here may be able to add some debate ending points.

Gus was like a smart, non-spamming, non-Oz-obsessed version of you. They didn't firebomb his car either.

Was a car bombing/fire part of the storyline?Just establishing the real motive behind the threads...Ta.

Ciggy wrote:

Billy Ruben wrote:

Ciggy wrote:

true lilly wrote:...there's a debate in this house...funny though, we agree,
Walt was inherently bad, and Jessie was inherently good,
but as to Gustavo Fring, opinion varies; from Devil to God,
and all mortals between.

Hope some here may be able to add some debate ending points.

Gus was like a smart, non-spamming, non-Oz-obsessed version of you. They didn't firebomb his car either.

Was a car bombing/fire part of the storyline?Just establishing the real motive behind the threads...Ta.

In the show Walt plants a bomb in Gus' car but Gus suspected it and didn't get in. So Walt rigs the old man's wheelchair with the bomb instead and sells it to the old man as a chance for revenge, and he takes it.

Ciggy wrote:The old man, Hector Salamanca, was a rival drug dealer. Gus killed all his sons.

Ciggy wrote:He was a drug dealer and a murderer, Lilly. Your morals are as out of whack as your mind.

le sabrage wrote:

Ciggy wrote:He was a drug dealer and a murderer, Lilly. Your morals are as out of whack as your mind.

Ahoy!!! Bilgerat!!! I agree.............but you still have much in common with the fuktard from down under...........