Apocalypse=REVELATION, NOT 'the end of the world'...

true lilly Tue Aug 09, 2011 11:32 am

Apocalypse=REVELATION, NOT 'the end of the world'...

...even that tool of deception, Wikipedia,
admits this much:
An Apocalypse
(Greek: ἀποκάλυψις apokálypsis;

"lifting of the veil" or "revelation")
is a disclosure of something
hidden from the majority of mankind
in an era dominated by falsehood and
misconception...
...before trying to bring it back around to lies "tintin" and Co. preach.

...but John's revelation DOES DESCRIBE,
the end of The Last Worldly Kingdom age,
that STARTED CRUMBLING
Thousands of years ago...and it terrifies
the "tintin's" of the world who, too proud
to humble themselves, slave even harder
at proudly siding with The Father of The Lie,
The Prince of Death, in leading as many as
possible, down to the pits of death with them.
http://forum.davidicke.com/showthread.php?t=11956&page=3009
LIES!
"tintin" is Knowingly, Willingly, MADLY
PREACHING FILTHY, MURDEROUS LIES.

And that he doesn't even bother to try to
explain away why he no longer admits
the truth of God's Word, as he once, so
boldly and publicly did, is also, yet another
sign, of how very little respect he has for
all his readers.

So I again implore all don't think it 'clever'
to choose to be deceived to death, to care,
to study for themselves, the full, descriptive
and root meanings of every word written in
The Apocalypse/REVELATIONS of John:
http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Rev&c=1&t=KJV&q=revelation#

MoMo Tue Aug 09, 2011 4:50 pm

true lilly wrote: ...............................
"tintin" is Knowingly, Willingly, MADLY
PREACHING FILTHY, MURDEROUS LIES.

And that he doesn't even bother to try to
explain away why he no longer admits
the truth of God's Word, as he once, so
boldly and publicly did, is also, yet another
sign, of how very little respect he has for
all his readers.

sheesh...don't look now Lilly; Queen of Bullshit..but so are you. thumbs up

You have got to learn to step outside of your overgrown, mammoth, gargantuan EGO and 'GIVE'. thumbs up

The Title of the Last Book in the Book of Yahweh is:

Chazuz Yahshua Hamashiach ashar natan lu ha Yahweh Abim bayid Malaku lao badu Yahchannan= Revealing the Revelation of Yahweh our Father through Yahshua Messiah His Son given to Yahchannan/John by the Malakh/Angel. thumbs up

Yahweh whispers to us in our pleasures; speaks to us in our consciences and shouts to us in our pains.

It has always been thus; it will always be so; The Well of Grief is fed by the Springs of Memory.

Apocalypse=REVELATION, NOT 'the end of the world'... Buddhacat

Apocalypse=REVELATION, NOT 'the end of the world'... Buddhacat

Those who set out to torment others often find themselves tormented by their own hand. This is the Devils Burden.

Each culture dresses the demon of its hatred in the garb of righteousness.

In humans, the personalities that could have been are always there, always uncomfortable in their imprisonment and periodically they scream from the Dungeons of their minds demanding their freedom. thumbs up

In Hebraic thought; the whole Function of the Torah and the Testimony is to turn the Soul away from the things of the flesh. During our life our soul either attaches itself to the things of the flesh-to the Path of Darkness; or it attaches itself to the things of the Spirit; becoming a Child of the Light. Capiche?

The Biblical commandments were given not for the sake of imposing rules and restrictions on people limiting their free will but as a Divine Communication that can be seen as generous-teaching/instructing Human Beings how Life Works and what to do and not do to make the best of it. [/size][/color][/font] thumbs up

Within the Mitzvot/Commandments are all the Instruction/Torah necessary for human conduct in order to help people avoid negative consequences and repercussions and also to reap great benefits from living in alignment with the Laws of the Universe. thumbs up

Who is wise? They who can foresee the consequences of their actions. cheers

MoMo Tue Aug 09, 2011 4:59 pm

The Aleph & Tav

NOT

the alpha & omega thumbs up

Capiche?

http://www.yahweh.com/pdf/12-2004-PW.pdf

Yahweh inspired holy men of old to write the Scriptures, in order to show mankind how to overcome sin. Once sin is overcome, mankind can become perfect in righteousness, and gain salvation, which is a gift of the Creator, Yahweh only.

However, if we refuse to follow the path of righteousness given by Yahweh’s prophets, we have chosen death. Compare the following Scriptures.

II Kepha 1:21—
For the prophecy did not come in former times by the will of man, but holy men of Yahweh spoke as they were moved by Holy Spirit.
It was by this same inspiration that the Prophet Isayah wrote the following:

Isayah 59:1-2—
1 Behold, Yahweh’s hand is not shortened, that it cannot save; nor His ear heavy, that it cannot hear.
2 But your own iniquities have separated you from your Father; and your own sins have caused Him to hide His face from you, so He will not listen.

Please notice that iniquity and sin separate you from Yahweh, the Heavenly Father.
The Savior used the word iniquity in His instruction to us, warning us to beware of religious imposters who teach against
Yahweh’s Laws.

Mattithyah 7:15—
Beware of false prophets who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
The Savior is trying to make us aware of righteousness and evil.

Mattithyah 7:21-22—
21 Not everyone who says to Me; Teacher! Teacher! will enter into the Kingdom of Yahweh, but only he who does the will of My Father Who is in heaven.
22 Many will say to Me in that day; Teacher! Teacher! Have we not prophesied in Your Name, and cast out demons in Your Name, and in Your Name performed many wonderful works?

Now remember, iniquity cuts one off from Yahweh (Isayah 59:1-2) so that He will not hear you. Notice the Savior’s words in the
next verse.

Mattithyah 7:23—
But then I will declare to them; I never knew you. Get away from Me, you who practice iniquity; you who break the Law of Yahweh!.....

The Savior Himself is saying that anyone who is not subject to the Laws of Yahweh is cut off from Yahweh and from the Savior; also.

Mattithyah 7:23—
...Get away from Me, you who practice iniquity; you who break the Law of Yahweh!

The Savior said the same thing in the following scriptures.

Revelation 22:12-16—12 And behold, I come quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give every man according as his work will be.
13 I am the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.
14 Blessed are those who keep His Laws, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the
city.
15 For outside are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and worshippers of gods (elohim) and everyone who
professes to love, yet practices breaking the Law.

16 I, Yahshua, have sent My malak to testify to you these things in the congregations of The House of Yahweh. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the Bright and Morning Star.

Please notice in the verses above that this is the Savior speaking; saying, “Blessed are those who keep, that is, do His, the Father’s, Laws. They, only, will be given the gift of eternal life. All others are cast out.” That’s also exactly what the Savior said in Mattithyah
7:21-23, “Depart from Me you who break the Father’s Laws.”.

The Prophet Isayah also said the same thing in:

Isayah 59:1-2—1 Behold, Yahweh’s hand is not shortened, that it cannot save; nor His ear heavy, that it cannot hear.
2 But your own iniquities have separated you from your Father; and your own sins have caused Him to hide His face from you, so He will not listen.

d.ne away with or can be rewritten to suit whoever, read the following inspired words of the prophets, apostles, and Savior.

I Yahchanan 3:4—.
Whoever commits sin, transgresses also the Law; for sin is the transgression of the Law.
I Yahchanan 2:4—
He who says: I know Him, but does not keep His Law, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

I Yahchanan 3:7-8—
7 Little children, let no man deceive you; he who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous.
8 He who commits sin is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of Yahweh was manifested; that He might destroy the works of the devil.

Hebrews 10:26-27—
26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins.
. 27 But a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries.

Revelation 20:11-15—
11 And I saw a great white throne, and Him Who sat on it, from Whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before Yahweh. And the books were opened; and another book was opened, which is The Book of Life. And the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and Death and Sheol; the grave, delivered up the dead which were in them. And
they were judged, every man, according to their works.
14 And Death and Sheol were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whoever was not found written in The Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.
There are religious imposters all over the world in this time period. The inspired scriptures show that the world, all nations and languages, have turned from the Creator Yahweh and are following, and even praying to Lucifer, under the name of Lord.

MoMo Tue Aug 09, 2011 5:08 pm

Yeremyah 23:26-27—
26 How long will this be in the heart of the prophets who prophesy lies? Yes, they are prophets of the deceit of their own minds;
27 Who devise; plan and scheme, to cause My people to forget My Name through their dreams, which they tell every man to his
neighbor, just as their fathers have forgotten My Name for Baal; Lord.
These are not my writings, these are the inspired words in your Bible, the same Bible that all religious preachers claim to follow,
but do not.
Why were these men so evil as to try to cause the Name of the Creator to be forgotten? Why are religious leaders all over the
.w.orld so evil as to try to keep the Name of the Creator hidden? Yeremyah 23:21-22—
21 I have not sent these prophets, yet they ran; I have not spoken of them, yet they prophesied.
22 But if they had stood in My counsel, and had caused My people to hear My words; the Law and the Prophets, then they would
have turned them from their evil way, and from the evil of their doings

Apocalypse=REVELATION, NOT 'the end of the world'... Sheepsclothing

Apocalypse=REVELATION, NOT 'the end of the world'... Sheepsclothing

MoMo Tue Aug 09, 2011 5:10 pm

Yahchanan Mark 12:28-30—
28 Then one of the scribes came, and listened to all their discussion, and had noted how well He answered. So he asked Him; What is
the first commandment of all?

29 And Yahshua answered Him: The first of all the commandments is: Hear, O Israyl, Yahweh is our Father. Yahweh is one.
. 30 And you must love Yahweh your Father with all your heart and with all your soul, and with all your might.

Deuteronomy 6:4-5—
4 Hear, O Israyl, Yahweh is our Father. Yahweh is one.
. 5 And you must love Yahweh your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might.
Mattithyah 4:10—
Then Yahshua said to her; You get away, Satan! For it is written: Yahweh your Father you must reverence, and Him only you must
. serve!

Deuteronomy 6:13—
. Yahweh your Father you must reverence, and Him you must serve, and by His Name you must take your oaths. Mattithyah 23:9—
. And you must not pray to or worship any man on earth as a “Father,” for you have only One Father, Who is in heaven.

Yahchanan 14:28—
You have heard that I told you: I go away, but come again to you. If you loved Me, you would have rejoiced that I am going to the Fa.
ther, for the Father is greater than I.

Yahchanan 12:49-50—
49 For I have not spoken on My own; but the Father Who sent Me gave Me the Laws—what I should say and what I should speak.
. 50 And I know that His Laws are life everlasting; so whatever I speak, I am saying exactly what My Father has told Me to say.

Mattithyah 24:36—
. But no man knows that day nor hour. No, not even the malakim in heaven, but My Father only. Mattithyah 19:16-17—
16 And behold, one came to Him, and said; Teacher, what righteous thing may I do, so that I may have eternal life?
17 But He said to him: Why do you question Me about righteousness? There is only One Who is the standard of perfection, and that
is Yahweh; so if you would enter into life, keep the Laws of Yahweh. thumbs up

MoMo Tue Aug 09, 2011 5:13 pm

Yahweh—The Alpha And Omega?

The phrase Alpha and Omega is written four times in the King James Version of the Scriptures. However, this phrase should only
have been written three times. It was added to the Scriptures once, in order to infer that it is Yahshua Messiah Who is Alpha and
Omega. Alpha and Omega are first written in:

Revelation 1:8, KJV—
I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending...
This Scripture cannot be any clearer than it is. This is Yahweh speaking about Himself.
.Then, Alpha and Omega are again written in: Revelation 1:11, KJV—
Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last...
After Yahchanan heard this being spoken, he turned around to see Who said it (verse 12), but saw Yahshua Messiah (verses 13-
.1.1.7). We can see this for ourselves in: Revelation 1:17-18—
17 And when I saw Him, I fell at His feet as though dead. But He laid His right hand upon me, saying to me: Do not be afraid; I am the
first and the last.
18 I am He Who lives, but was dead. And: Behold, I am alive forevermore. HalleluYahweh! And I have the keys of death and Sheol;
the grave.

In other words Yahshua told Yahchanan not to be afraid, for He was alive forevermore. Yahshua did not identify Himself by that title Alpha and Omega..

Then, the phrase Alpha and Omega is again written in Revelation 21:6-7, which is speaking of Yahweh. Revelation 21:6-7, KJV—
6 And He said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the
fountain of the water of life freely.
7 He that overcometh will inherit all things; and I will be his Father, and he shall be My son.

Yahweh is the Father, so it is definitely Yahweh Who is doing the speaking in this prophecy.

Now, we come to the Scripture in which the words Alpha and Omega were added, in order to say that Yahshua is the Alpha and Omega. This Scripture is Revelation 22:13. Revelation 22:16 undeniably states that these are Yahshua’s words.

Revelation 22:12-17, KJV—
12 And behold, I come quickly, and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
13 I am Alpha and Omega, 117 the beginning, and the end, the first and last.
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the
cities.
15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
16 I Jesus have sent mine Angel, to testify unto you these things in the Churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the
bright and morning star.
17 And the Spirit and the Bride say, Come. And let him that heareth, say, Come. And let him that is athirst, come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

Notice Footnote Number 117, which has been circled in verse 13. The footnote of this Bible, shows that the Alexandrian (NU)
and the Vatican (M) texts omit the phrase, Alpha and Omega.117 NU-Text and M-Text read the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.

Well, you might say, “What difference does it make that those three little words were added to this Scripture in Revelation 22:13?”

Never before has there been a true understanding of what Yahweh actually said when He identified Himself as the first and the last.

Since we know that Yahweh said that He is the first and the last in Revelation 21:6, let us thoroughly study the Scriptures to come to Yahweh’s truth.

In Revelation 1:8, the Being Who is speaking identifies Himself as the Almighty, Who we all know is Yahweh.
Following is an exact copy of this Scripture from The Concordant Version of the Sacred Scriptures, which one can see differs
greatly from the more modern Greek Interlinear:
Almost all English versions of the Bible render Revelation 1:8 in the same way the King James Version is translated.

Revelation 1:8, KJV—
I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
By merely leaving this text as it is written, a tremendous understanding has been lost. However, if these two Greek letters are researched in detail, one will readily see that Yahweh is revealing much more about Himself than just being the beginning and the
end.

In the Greek alphabet, the letter alpha is the first letter, and omega is the last letter. However, in the Hebrew Language, in which
even the so-called New Testament Scriptures are now known to have been originally written, the letter aleph a is the first letter, and
the letter tau t is the last.

It is an admitted fact by the Biblical scholars that Revelation 1:8 should say in Hebrew:

I am the ALEPH and the TAU instead of I am the ALPHA and OMEGA .The Anchor Bible, Revelation Volume 38, page 379, gives us the explanation of this phrase.

8. the Alpha and the Omega. The Hebrew would be aleph and taw, probably standing respectively for Urim and
Thummim, the sacred lots of the high priest used to determine the will of God, and also meaning all “encompassing.”
Adam Clarke, in his Commentary, Volume 6, page 971, agrees that alpha and omega are aleph and tau in Hebrew.
[The beginning and the ending.] That is, as aleph or alpha is the beginning of the alphabet, so am I the author
and cause of all things; as tau or omega is the end or last letter of the alphabet, so am I the end of all things,
the destroyer as well as the establisher of all things.
We would not be any better off, however, if this Scripture (Revelation 1: Cool

is properly rendered: “I am the Aleph and the Tau.”
We still would not know what Yahweh means when He identifies Himself by the first and last letters of the Hebrew alphabet,
unless this is further researched.
The letters aleph and tau must be researched to see if they do have a meaning, or message, to convey.
What the Bible translators did not realize (or they rejected) is that each individual Hebrew letter can be a word or phrase unto
itself, with a specific meaning. This is clearly pointed out by Fabre d’Olivet in his book, The Hebraic Tongue Restored. Dr. d’Olivet
gives clear, precise explanations of the meanings of each individual Hebrew letter, and what they point out or declare. On page 98
of his book, Dr. d’Olivet also states that knowing that each Hebrew letter has a meaning of its own, is the key to understanding the
Scriptures.
In reference to the letters aleph and tau, Dr. d’Olivet gives clear proof that these two letters make statements in their own right.
The first letter in the Hebrew alphabet, as Dr. d’Olivet points out from The Hebraic Tongue Restored on pages 95 and 287,
stands for unity.
a A.__This first character of the alphabet, in nearly all known idioms, is the sign of power and of stability. The ideas that it expresses
are those of unity...
a A. First character of the alphabet in nearly all known idioms. In its hieroglyphic acceptation, it characterizes unity, the central
point, the abstract principle of a thing. As sign, it expresses power, stability, continuity.
On pages 98 and 465 of this book, Dr. d’Olivet clearly points out that the letter tau, the last letter of the Hebrew alphabet, means
and stands for perfection.
t TH.Sign of reciprocity: image of that which is mutual and reciprocal. Sign of signs. Joining to the abundance of the character d,
to the force of the resistance and protection of the character f, the idea of perfection of which it is itself the symbol.
t TH. This character as consonant, belongs to the sibilant sound. As grammatical sign in the Hebraic Tongue, it is that of sympathy
and reciprocity; joining, to the abundance of the character r , to the force of resistance and protection of the character f, the idea
of perfection and necessity of which it is the emblem.

Incredible as it may sound, both single letters aleph and tau, are in themselves Hebrew words that have specific meanings.
As Clark in his Commentary, and the writers of The Anchor Bible, Revelation, have shown,the Alpha and Omega should have
been written: the Aleph and the Tau.

Now, with the true meanings of these Hebrew letters revealed, all can see the statement that Yahweh is actually making in these
Scriptures.

Revelation 1:8—
I am unity (Aleph) and perfection (Tau), the Beginning and the End, says Yahweh: Who is, and Who was, and Who is to come: the Almighty.

Other Scriptures verify that Yahweh is unity and perfection. Deuteronomy 6:4—
Hear, O Israyl, Yahweh is our Father. Yahweh is One.
Yahshua Messiah, a begotten Son of Yahweh, Who was the Savior sent by Yahweh, taught that Yahweh is perfection.

Mattithyah 19:17—
But He said to him: Why do you question Me about righteousness? There is only One who is the standard of perfection, and that is . Yahweh; so if you would enter into life, keep the Laws of Yahweh.

Mattithyah 5:48—
Therefore, become perfect, just as your Father Who is in heaven is perfect.
Yahweh is revealing Himself again to be unity and perfection.

These Scriptures that reveal the Alpha and Omega, the Aleph and
the Tau to be Yahweh Almighty (Revelation 1:8; 1:11; and 21:6) do not point out Yahshua Messiah. Nor can Revelation 22:13,
in which this phrase was added, be used to claim that Yahshua Messiah pre-existed.
Yahshua Messiah: First And Last—Beginning And End
Having proven that the words Alpha and Omega were added to this Scripture,

Revelation 22:13, The Book Of Yahweh correctly reads.
Revelation 22:13—_
I am the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.

.pWe know Yahshua said this. We know it is no contradiction for Him to call Himself the last, for He will live forever.
We know it is no contradiction for Him to call Himself “the end,” for He is the end result of having kept His Father’s Laws perfectly.

Romans 10:4—
For Yahshua is the ultimate result of keeping the Law unto righteousness for everyone who believes.

The translators tried to distort this Scripture to try to make you believe that Yahshua Messiah ended the Law. thumbs up

Romans 10:4 taken
from the King James Version, shows us how this Scripture has been distorted.

Romans 10:4, KJV—
For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone that believeth.

If you will research the meanings of the word translated end in this Scripture, then you will see that this word means ultimate, prophetic
purpose, and not end as is universally understood in the English context.
The word translated end in Romans 10:4, as well as Revelation 22:12 is word #5056, from Strong’s Greek Dictionary and
means to set out for a definite point or goal; prop. the point aimed at as a limit, ultimate or prophetic, purpose.
Religious imposters also use Romans 10:4 in order to deceive the people in this world into thinking that Shaul taught against
Yahweh’s Laws. The Apostle Shaul never once taught against the Law of Yahweh. In fact, he taught all to keep Yahweh’s Law. In
the same book of Romans, which Shaul wrote, we find the following Scriptures. Romans 2:13—
For not the hearers of the Law are the righteous in the sight of Yahweh, but the doers of the Law are the righteous.
Romans 6:16—
Do you not know that to whom you yield yourselves as servants to obey, his servants you are whom you obey; whether of sin which leads to
death, or of obedience which leads to righteousness?

There are many Scriptures in the book of Romans, which teach against sin: against breaking the Law of Yahweh

(I Yahchanan 3:4). However, these two should be enough to show you that the Apostle Shaul did not teach against the Laws of Yahweh, as the
false religious leaders would have you believe.

Now, in Revelation 22:13, Yahshua called Himself the “last” because He has been resurrected to eternal life, and now He will
never die again. He called Himself the “end” because He is the end product, the ultimate result of keeping the Law of Yahweh.

What did He mean when He called Himself the first in Revelation 22:13? Did He mean that He was the first being to ever exist?

Many would have you think so. Did He mean that He was the Father of all living? There are some who would have you believe this.

Was Yahshua saying that He pre-existed? If you will let Scripture interpret the Scriptures, then understanding will come.

Revelation 1:5—
And from Yahshua Messiah; the faithful witness, and the firstborn from the dead, and the Ruler of future kings of the earth. To Him Who loved us and freed us from our sins by His own blood.

When Yahshua called Himself the first in Revelation 22:13, He made no reference to pre-existence. Yahshua simply meant that He was the firstborn from the dead, which means that He was the first to be raised from the dead and given eternal life. Because
Yahshua was raised from the dead, He is now immortal, He was the first to be fully created in the full image of Yahweh. This is what Yahshua meant when He said He was the first, in Revelation 22:13.

What, then, did He mean when He called Himself the beginning in this same Scripture? Does this mean that He was in the beginning with Yahweh, as some would also have you to believe?

The answer to this question is found in: Revelation 3:14—
And to the malak of the congregation of The House of Yahweh in Laodicea, write: These things says the Faithful and the True One, the One testifying of the faith and the truth; the first perfected of Yahweh’s creation.

In this Scripture, Yahshua called Himself the beginning of the creation of Yahweh. Yes, man in his present physical state, is only
a half-created being, because we are still corruptible flesh, as Shaul said. I Corinthians 15:53—
For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
We are still dying in this world. If you do not believe this, just read the obituaries. Man is only in the likeness of Yahweh at this time;
man was created to resemble Yahweh. Man has a form just like Yahweh, a head, a chest, arms, legs and feet, just as Scriptures describe Yahweh as having.

However, Yahshua Messiah, because He is the first to be raised from the dead to eternal life, is now in the full image of Yahweh. Yahshua is perfected. He has become the first or the beginning, among men, to reach the state of perfect, completed,
whole creation, as Yahweh’s Plan for mankind is.Therefore, He still has no reference to pre-existence in calling Himself the beginning in Revelation 22:13. Yahshua Messiah simply meant that He was the beginning, the first perfected of Yahweh’s whole creation, or plan for man.

cheers

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIF4_Sm-rgQ

Apocalypse=REVELATION, NOT 'the end of the world'... Aleph_Tav

true lilly Tue Aug 09, 2011 5:20 pm

I know ¹⁴⁹² thy ⁴⁶⁷⁵ works ²⁰⁴¹,
and ²⁵³² tribulation ²³⁴⁷, and ²⁵³² poverty ⁴⁴³²,
(but ¹¹⁶¹ thou art ¹⁴⁸⁸ rich ⁴¹⁴⁵)
and ²⁵³² [I know] the blasphemy ⁹⁸⁸
of them which ³⁵⁸⁸ say ³⁰⁰⁴
they ¹⁴³⁸ are ¹⁵¹¹ Jews ²⁴⁵³,
and ²⁵³² are ¹⁵²⁶ not ³⁷⁵⁶,
but ²³⁵ [are] the synagogue ⁴⁸⁶⁴ of Satan ⁴⁵⁶⁷.

true lilly Tue Aug 09, 2011 5:25 pm

And ²⁵³² to the angel ³² of the church ¹⁵⁷⁷ in ¹⁷²² Pergamos ⁴⁰¹⁰ write ¹¹²⁵ ; These things ³⁵⁹² saith ³⁰⁰⁴ he which hath ²¹⁹² the sharp ³⁶⁹¹ sword ⁴⁵⁰¹ with two edges ¹³⁶⁶;

I know ¹⁴⁹² thy ⁴⁶⁷⁵ works ²⁰⁴¹, and ²⁵³² where ⁴²²⁶ thou dwellest ²⁷³⁰ , [even] where ³⁶⁹⁹ Satan's ⁴⁵⁶⁷ seat ²³⁶² [is]: and ²⁵³² thou holdest fast ²⁹⁰² my ³⁴⁵⁰ name ³⁶⁸⁶, and ²⁵³² hast ⁷²⁰ ⁰ not ³⁷⁵⁶ denied ⁷²⁰ my ³⁴⁵⁰ faith ⁴¹⁰², even ²⁵³² in ¹⁷²² those days ²²⁵⁰ wherein ¹⁷²² ³⁷³⁹ Antipas ⁴⁹³ [was] my ³⁴⁵⁰ faithful ⁴¹⁰³ martyr ³¹⁴⁴, who ³⁷³⁹ was slain ⁶¹⁵ among ³⁸⁴⁴ you ⁵²¹³, where ³⁶⁹⁹ Satan ⁴⁵⁶⁷ dwelleth ²⁷³⁰ .

But ²³⁵ I have ²¹⁹² a few things ³⁶⁴¹ against ²⁵⁹⁶ thee ⁴⁶⁷⁵,
because ³⁷⁵⁴ thou hast ²¹⁹² there ¹⁵⁶³
them that hold ²⁹⁰²
the doctrine ¹³²² of Balaam ⁹⁰³,
who ³⁷³⁹ taught ¹⁷²² ¹³²¹ Balac ⁹⁰⁴
to cast ⁹⁰⁶ a stumblingblock ⁴⁶²⁵
before ¹⁷⁹⁹ the children ⁵²⁰⁷ of Israel ²⁴⁷⁴,
to eat ⁵³¹⁵ things sacrificed unto idols ¹⁴⁹⁴,
and ²⁵³² to commit fornication ⁴²⁰³ .

Repent ³³⁴⁰ ; or else ¹⁴⁹⁰
I will come ²⁰⁶⁴ unto thee ⁴⁶⁷¹ quickly ⁵⁰³⁵,
and ²⁵³² will fight ⁴¹⁷⁰ against ³³²⁶ them ⁸⁴⁶
with ¹⁷²² the sword ⁴⁵⁰¹ of my ³⁴⁵⁰ mouth ⁴⁷⁵⁰.

MoMo Tue Aug 09, 2011 5:33 pm

First lilly, you need to know who or what Ha-Satan is. thumbs up

Also the use of Hyperbole in the Ancient world. thumbs up

Did Satan Fall?: The Devil is in the Details

http://ejmmm2007.blogspot.com/search?q=ha+satan

I just received a call from a university student doing a research paper on Judaism. Fielding such calls is part and parcel of the everyday duties of a congregational rabbi, but I suspect I do more of these then your average rabbi simply because the greater Dallas area has a whopping population of Evangelical and Fundamentalist Christians who are looking for ways to incorporate religious topics into their school assignments and research papers (in my duties as a teacher at the University of North Texas I deal with this phenomenon from the other end also, deciding whether to green-line student proposals). Anyway, you never know which way these interviews are going to turn. In this case, the student became very hung up on the idea that Judaism has Satan but no Devil. At first she didn't understand what I was saying, and followed up by asking, "So how did Satan fall, in your tradition?" "Well, he didn't fall - that's what I meant when I said we have Satan but no Devil. Jews don't believe there is any spiritual force that opposes God (except us). Satan is God's prosecuting attorney." (Long silence on the other end of the phone). "I don't understand..." "Do you ever watch Law and Order?" I ask. "Sure." "Well, you've seen how Jack McCoy presses and wheedles, manipulates, even deceives people to uncover their guilt? He's mean as a snake, but still works for the good side?" "Yes, I guess." "Well, in Jewish tradition, Satan is Jack McCoy" (the very Hebrew word, ha-satan, means "the adversary" - but that's the adversary of man and his sin, not God). And just as Jack never takes a fall for his highhanded but necessary work, so too Satan remains in good standing with the Bar On High." "But the Bible tells of his fall," She responds, sounding defensive. "Well, actually, no, the Hebrew Bible doesn't." "I'm sure it does." "And where exactly does it say that 'Satan was expelled from heaven'?" I ask helpfully. "Wow" is all she says and we move on to another topic.

Actually, in the spirit of Law and Order, I did not provide her with a full 'discovery' on falling from heaven, primarily because I don't consider these verses truly exculpatory. For I know that according to Christian exegesis, Satan’s fall from heaven is said to be found in Isaiah 14:12-14 and Ezekiel 28:12-18. But that requires a highly exegetical (deriving something from a text that isn't explicitly stated) reading and could arguable be called 'eisogetical' (projecting something into the text that isn't there). For these two passages are explicitly referring to the king of Babylon and the king of Tyre, respectively. Christians argue that they also reference the spiritual power that was behind those kings - Satan. But neither text ever speaks of Satan, even in an allusive fashion. Instead, both texts are laser focused on these kings and both use the image of falling out of heaven as a literary trope for how low these two powerful kings are going to be brought down. The connection to Satan is (in my opinion) entirely inferred by Christian readers. In Judaism, we do not read these passages as referring to Satan.

While he is indeed a dark and menacing figure (would you want to be in Jack McCoy's sights?), he is still God's agent, just like the other two major mythic and personified 'dark' forces in Jewish tradition, the Malach ha-Mavet and the Yetzer ha-Ra (the Angel of Death and the Evil Desire). All three of these forces are the 'severe' aspect of God's inscrutable will, but part of God's will they are, nonetheless. All of them are subordinate and subservient to the Blessed Holy One...................................................A Necessary Evil: The Yetzer ha-Ra
Last week I explained that in Judaism ha-Satan, the Adversary, was one of the “severe” agents of God. Another such harsh but necessary force in God’s creation is the Yetzer ha-Ra, which is variously translated as the “Evil Impulse,” the “Evil Desire,” the “Selfish Desire” or just “Desire.” It is that aspect of nature, but especially human nature, which drives us to compete, to fight, to possess, but most of all to desire sexual gratification.
[Postcard by Jungenstil artist Moses Ephraim Lilien]

Though it is counter-balanced by the Yetzer ha-Tov, the “altruistic desire,” it is nonetheless the source of much of the grief in human life – lust, violence, selfishness, vengeance, and ambition. One would think that humanity would be truly better off if we could destroy this impulse. I always think in this context of John Lennon’s “Imagine.” It has struck me that Lennon is thinking of something akin to the Yetzer when he wrote that song. Imagine if human being were finally free of all the selfish drives? No thoughts of property, security, self-aggrandizement or the future? Wouldn’t things be perfect, or at least a whole lot better? Is Lennon right? Well, in fact, the Sages of Talmudic times anticipated Lennon by about 1600 years and imagined just such a scenario. This is their mythic account of the “Day the Muse [almost] died”:

And [they]cried with a great voice to the Eternal their God (Neh. 9:4). What did they cry?...Woe, woe, it is he [the Yetzer ha-Ra] who has destroyed the Sanctuary, burnt the Temple, killed the righteous, driven all Israel into exile and is still dancing in our midst… You have surely given him to us that we may receive merit through him. We want neither him nor merit through him. In that moment a tablet fell from the firmament, the word ‘truth’ inscribed upon it [Heaven accedes to the request]….They [the Sages of the Great Assembly] ordered a complete fast of three day….whereupon he [the Yetzer] was surrendered to them. He came forth from the Holy of Holies like a fiery lion…. At that moment the prophet declared, “This is the Yetzer”…the prophet said, “cast him in a lead barrel” (See Zech. 5:….He [the Yetzer] said to them, “Realize that if you kill me, the world is finished.” They held him for three days, then they looked in the whole land of Israel and not an egg could be found. So they asked, “What shall we do now?”…So they put out his eyes and let him go; this helped in that men became less inclined to incest (Yoma 69b).

What a remarkable story. It teaches a most profound truth. We see evil in ourselves, it offends us, and we think the right thing to do is to totally purge ourselves of it. Yet we don’t truly understand it, for things we so easily characterize as “evil” actually spring out of the very nexus of holiness. Surreal as it is, this maaseh makes an incredible point – it is the strife of the spirit, the very struggle between our impulses that makes the world work. Without the Yetzer ha-Ra, the world as we know would cease – people [and animals] would no longer be driven to build, to create, to have children. In short, life as we know, including not only evil aspects but most of what we regard as beautiful also, would cease. Without Desire, Life itself would slowly wither away, and that would be a sad thing. So the goal of the spiritual person is not to destroy the selfish-sexual-evil impulse, but rather to sublimate it to God’s purpose. To be truly what God wants us to be, to achieve our fullest human potential, we need to learn to bend both our impulses to godly ends. We should not cease to lust, but should direct that urge toward love. We should turn our impulse toward vengeance into the desire for justice, our ambition for acquiring possessions into the creation of wealth that will “float every boat,” as GOP rhetoricians like to say.

As Genesis Rabbah teaches:

And God saw all that He had made, and found it very good…vehinei tov zeh yetzer hatov, vehinei tov me’od zeh yetzer hara – "good" refers to the Good Inclination but "very good" refers to the Evil Inclination.
Why? Because were it not for the Yetzer ha-Ra no one would build a house, take a wife, give birth, or engage in commerce.

In other words, God is the source of the Yetzer ha-Ra and, despite what we may think, has blessed us though it with a purpose in mind – to fill us with desire; the desire to make the world better than it is.

Your ignorance remains appalling. thumbs up

true lilly Tue Aug 09, 2011 5:35 pm

And ²⁵³² unto the angel ³² of the church ¹⁵⁷⁷ in ¹⁷²² Thyatira ²³⁶³
write ¹¹²⁵ ;
These things ³⁵⁹² saith ³⁰⁰⁴ the Son ⁵²⁰⁷ of God ²³¹⁶,
who ³⁵⁸⁸ hath ²¹⁹² his ⁸⁴⁶ eyes ³⁷⁸⁸ like ⁵⁶¹³
unto a flame ⁵³⁹⁵ of fire ⁴⁴⁴²,
and ²⁵³² his ⁸⁴⁶ feet ⁴²²⁸ [are] like ³⁶⁶⁴ fine brass ⁵⁴⁷⁴;

Notwithstanding ²³⁵ I have ²¹⁹² a few things ³⁶⁴¹ against ²⁵⁹⁶ thee ⁴⁶⁷⁵,
because ³⁷⁵⁴ thou sufferest ¹⁴³⁹
that woman ¹¹³⁵ Jezebel ²⁴⁰³,
which ³⁵⁸⁸ calleth ³⁰⁰⁴ herself ¹⁴³⁸ a prophetess ⁴³⁹⁸,
to teach ¹³²¹ and ²⁵³² to seduce ⁴¹⁰⁵ my ¹⁶⁹⁹ servants ¹⁴⁰¹
to commit fornication ⁴²⁰³ ,
and ²⁵³² to eat ⁵³¹⁵ things sacrificed unto idols ¹⁴⁹⁴.

And ²⁵³² I gave ¹³²⁵ her ⁸⁴⁶ space ⁵⁵⁵⁰
to ²⁴⁴³ repent ³³⁴⁰ of ¹⁵³⁷ her ⁸⁴⁶ fornication ⁴²⁰²;
and ²⁵³² she repented ³³⁴⁰ not ³⁷⁵⁶.

Behold ²⁴⁰⁰ , I ¹⁴⁷³ will cast ⁹⁰⁶ her ⁸⁴⁶ into ¹⁵¹⁹ a bed ²⁸²⁵,
and ²⁵³² them that commit adultery ³⁴³¹ with ³³²⁶ her ⁸⁴⁶
into ¹⁵¹⁹ great ³¹⁷³ tribulation ²³⁴⁷,
except ³³⁶² they repent ³³⁴⁰ of ¹⁵³⁷ their ⁸⁴⁶ deeds ²⁰⁴¹.

And ²⁵³² I will kill ⁶¹⁵ her ⁸⁴⁶ children ⁵⁰⁴³ with ¹⁷²² death ²²⁸⁸;
and ²⁵³² all ³⁹⁵⁶ the churches ¹⁵⁷⁷ shall know ¹⁰⁹⁷ that ³⁷⁵⁴
I ¹⁴⁷³ am ¹⁵¹⁰ he which ³⁵⁸⁸ searcheth ²⁰⁴⁵
the reins ³⁵¹⁰ and ²⁵³² hearts ²⁵⁸⁸:
and ²⁵³² I will give ¹³²⁵ unto every one ¹⁵³⁸ of you ⁵²¹³
according to ²⁵⁹⁶ your ⁵²¹⁶ works ²⁰⁴¹.

Billy Ruben Tue Aug 09, 2011 5:37 pm

[size18]with ¹⁷²² the sword ⁴⁵⁰¹ of my ³⁴⁵⁰ mouth ⁴⁷⁵⁰. [/color]
[/size]

...and you do that very well madam,we are all cnuts,babyfuckers and beastiality people...you slay all before you with foul slander...
an enemy to be feared.

rolf

MoMo Tue Aug 09, 2011 5:38 pm

Notice billyboy, she is so blinded by her ego and hatred she won't even read what I have Posted, for her and her Readers benefit. wave

Is the New Testament anti-Semitic?
Are there anti-Semitic passages in the NT?
Does the Bible justify persecution of Jews?
Pro-Semitism in the NT
Further reading

Matthew 23:35 (also Lk 11:50-51)
And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar.

Matthew 27:25

All the people answered, "Let his blood be on us and on our children!"

John 8:44 (also Rev 2:9)

You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire.

1 Thessalonians 2:14-16

You suffered from your own countrymen the same things those churches suffered from the Jews, who killed the Lord Jesus and the prophets and also drove us out. They displease God and are hostile to all men in their effort to keep us from speaking to the Gentiles so that they may be saved. In this way they always heap up their sins to the limit. The wrath of God has come upon them at last.

Revelation 3:9

I will make those who are of the synagogue of Satan, who claim to be Jews though they are not, but are liars - I will make them come and fall down at your feet and acknowledge that I have loved you.

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Are the above passages anti-Semitic?

Matthew 27:25 is assumed to be anti-Semitic, not to mention absurd, because it has the Jews voluntarily accepting the blame for Jesus' death (for the context of the passage, see Matthew 27:15-26).

As for its absurdity, we ourselves make similar statements today. One can readily imagine someone commenting on a trial and saying, "I'll be damned if he's innocent." Does the speaker really mean that they will accept eternal condemnation if they're wrong about the guilt of the defendant? Of course not - and neither did the crowd that called for Jesus' death. The statement in Matthew is most likely recording a common form of hyperbole, not the crowd's admission of guilt.

As for the other passages, one must distinguish between what they are and are not saying.

They are saying that people who reject Christ are rejecting both God and the provision he's made for the forgiveness of their wrongs, and will therefore be condemned.

They are not saying that all people born to Jewish parents (or parents of any particular race, for that matter) are condemned. God's judgment is not based on biology or other factors outside an individual's control, but on the individual's choices. Those who choose to accept Christ as their God and accept the forgiveness he provides will be spared punishment, regardless of whether they were born into a Jewish or Gentile family. Those who reject Christ will be condemned, again regardless of their ethnic heritage. Hence these passages are not referring to all Jews as a racial group.

On the other hand, the above passages and others in the New Testament do say that those who are religiously Jewish, i.e. who practice Judaism and don't believe Jesus is the Messiah or Son of God, will be condemned.

Is this anti-Semitic or a bias against Judaism? Actually, this is no different than Judaism's condemnation of those who reject Jehovah[1].

Is Judaism racist or prejudiced for condemning those who don't believe in it? No, for it is condemning those who wrongly reject God and do evil. The basis for salvation or condemnation in Judaism is one's choosing to follow or reject God, just as it is in Christianity.

Some will object that the passages refer to "the Jews" and not to individuals, implying that Jews in general are being condemned. To clear this up, one should review the surrounding context of the verses. For example, in John 8 Jesus was speaking to a specific group of Jews, "the Jews who had believed him"[2] and who attempted to stone him once the conversation was finished.[3] In 1 Thessalonians 2, Paul was referring to Jews who had rejected God and resorted to violence. In both cases, the speaker was himself ethnically Jewish, and the Jews who were condemned were those who had clearly rejected God by their actions. These same people would have been condemned by the tenets of Judaism as well, for they were opposed to God and also broke the Law by committing murder.
The first passage in Matthew is addressed further in Does God punish children for their parents' sins?

Do John 8:44 and Revelation 2:9, 3:9 justify persecution of Jews?

Anyone who attempts to use these passages to justify persecuting Jews is going against the teachings of the following passages:

I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, so that you may not be conceited:
Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in. And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:
"The deliverer will come from Zion;
he will turn godlessness away from Jacob.
And this is my covenant with them
when I take away their sins."

As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies on your account; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, for God's gifts and his call are irrevocable.

Just as you who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of their disobedience, so they too have now become disobedient in order that they too may now receive mercy as a result of God's mercy to you. (Rom 11:25-31, emphasis mine)

And [Jesus] sent messengers on ahead, who went into a Samaritan village to get things ready for him; but the people there did not welcome him, because he was heading for Jerusalem. When the disciples James and John saw this, they asked, "Lord, do you want us to call fire down from heaven to destroy them?" But Jesus turned and rebuked them, and they went to another village. (Lk 9:52-56)

In other words, Christians are to love Jews specifically and are not to take God's judgment into their own hands. Do these passages contradict John 8:44 and Revelation? No, for God - who knows perfectly what is right and knows everything about us - is justified in condemning those who reject him. The point here is that mere humans do not have the right to do all the things that God is entitled to do, in particular execute judgment on those who reject Christ. Christians have no right to harm Jews or others who don't follow Christ, for all humans are made in God's image[4] and are loved by God. Christians are not inherently more righteous than non-Christians, for "there is no one who is righteous;"[5] thus Christians have to right to look down on Jews, let alone persecute them. In fact, Paul explicitly tells Gentiles they have no basis for an attitude of superiority towards non-Christian Jews:
I am talking to you Gentiles...If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, do not boast over those branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. You will say then, "Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in." Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith.

Do not be arrogant, but be afraid. For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either.
Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off. And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. After all, if you were cut out of an olive tree that is wild by nature, and contrary to nature were grafted into a cultivated olive tree, how much more readily will these, the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree! (Rom 11:13, 17-24)

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Pro-Semitism in the NT The New Testament has always struck me as being strongly pro-Semitic rather than anti-Semitic, because of the following passages.

In the Gospels:

•Matthew 1:1-17 and Luke 3:23-38 emphasize that Jesus was Jewish and a descendent of David
•Matthew 10:5-6 - Jesus instructs the disciples to take the Gospel to the Jews first, not the Gentiles
•Matthew 15:21-28 - Jesus tells a Gentile woman that he was sent to save the Jews first
•The Jews are far from being the only ones involved in Christ's persecution and crucifixion. Pilate let Jesus be crucified despite realizing his innocence (Mk 15:9-15) and the Roman soldiers mocked and persecuted Jesus, as well as doing the actual crucifying (Mt 27:27-31, Lk 23:11, 35-37).
•John 4:22 - "Salvation is from the Jews" (i.e. from Jesus, David's descendant)
In Acts:
•4:27 - Herod, Pilate and the Gentiles in Jerusalem (not just the Jews) conspired against Jesus
•11:1-18 - In the account of Peter and Cornelius, the Jews are amazed that God is merciful enough to save "even the (unclean) Gentiles."
•14:1, 17:10-12 - Paul follows Jesus' model of going to the Jews first, and many Jews accept Jesus as the Messiah
In the Pauline Epistles:
•Romans 1:16 - Salvation is "first for the Jew, then for the Gentile"
•Romans 9:1-5 - Paul (who is Jewish) describes his desire for the Israelites to receive Christ and the honors the Israelites have received, including that Jesus' human ancestry was through them
•Romans 11:1-24 - Paul warns the Gentiles against boasting, comparing them to wild olive branches and the Jews to cultivated olive branches
•Romans 11:28 - Even those Jews who reject Christ are to be "loved on account of the patriarchs."
•Romans 15:27 - "For if the Gentiles have shared in the Jews' spiritual blessings, they owe it to the Jews to share with them their material blessings."
•Galatians 2:7-9 - At least three of the apostles had a specific ministry to the Jews
•Galatians 2:11-13 - Rather than an anti-Semitic prejudice, the early church had if anything a pro-Semitic prejudice, as evidenced by Peter and others discriminating against Gentiles
In Revelation:
•7:2-8 - "144,000 from the tribes of Israel" are sealed with God's seal
•21:12 - The names of the twelve tribes of Israel are written on the gates of the new Jerusalem

http://www.jfjonline.org/pub/newsletters/5753-04/anti.htm

http://www.cdn-friends-icej.ca/antiholo/newtest.html

Is the New Testament Anti-Semitic?

by Clifford Goldstein, Liberty, March/April 1992

What book depicts Jews as hypocrites, apostates, liars, and sinners? What book denounces Jewish leaders and the Jewish nation? What book scolds its priests, claims its Temple services are corrupt, and spews forth warnings that God's judgments will fall upon the Jews? What book - accusing the Jews of murder, corruption, greed, and robbery - declares that they have forsaken God?

Sounds like the New Testament, long indicted as the Perian Spring of Western anti-Semitism. Some believe the hands that signed the "final solution" simply finished the script begun by Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. Hitler, others claim, was the logical, inevitable result of Paul. Christian historian James Parkes writes that "more than 6 million deliberate murders are the consequences of the teaching about the Jews for which the Christian church is ultimately responsible, and our attitude to Judaism which is not only maintained by all Christian churches but has its ultimate resting place in the teaching of the New Testament itself."

"The New Testament," writes Harry Kimball, "is the primary source of anti-Semitism. "The authors of the Gospels," wrote Jewish historian Heinrich Graetz, "by putting these words of violent hatred against the preservers of Judaism into the mouth of Jesus Himself, stamped Him thereby as a relentless foe of the members of His own race who did not believe in Him by clung to their original faith."

Yet the book described in the opening paragraph is not the New Testament - it is the Old! Indeed, if the criteria for determining anti-Judaism in the New Testament were applied to the Old, it would be declared the more anti-Jewish of the two.

Incorrigible Villains:

Scholars have long debated about anti-Judaism in the New Testament, but rarely, if at all, anti-Judaism in the Old. It, after all, is a book written about Jews, by Jews who considered themselves loyal Jews. Yet except for Luke (not considered the most anti-Jewish of the Gospel writers), the New Testament was written about Jews, by Jews who considered themselves loyal Jews too.

The New Testament, tough, has pages of anti-Jewish calumny. "The New Testament contains 102 references to the Jews of [the] most degrading and malevolent kind," wrote Dagobert Runes, "thereby creating in the minds and hearts of the Christian children and adults ineradicable hatred toward the Jewish people."

In the Gospels, Jewish leaders, priests, scribes, and Pharisees play the role of incorrigible villains. Depicted as cold and heartless formalists, they appear pious outside but seethe with treachery inside. Jesus labels them hypocrites, deceivers, even murderers - words later used to help formulate a theology of anti-Semitism. "Nowhere is this theological anti-Judaism more apparent," writes Princeton religious historian John G. Gager, "than in the dialogue between Jesus and the Pharisees in {John} 8." Here, after telling Jewish leaders that they are not the true children of Abraham, and accusing them of plotting His murder, Jesus says, "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning" (verse 44).

Matthew 23 is nothing but a denunciation: "But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! ... Ye blind guides ... Ye fools and blind .... Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers. Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?" (verses 13-33).

The Gospel writers depict Jewish leaders as planning Jesus' death: "And the scribes and chief priests ... sought how they might destroy him" (Mark 11:18). Indeed, all the Gospels implicate the leaders in His death.

Jesus' denunciations not only of the leaders but also of the nation have fueled the anti-Semite's fire. In Luke 20, Jesus, symbolizing Israel as a vineyard, tells of a master who planted a vineyard and "let it forth to husbandmen" (verse 9). Later when the servants came to collect the fruit from the master's vineyard, the husbandmen beat them. He sent more servants, and they beat them too. Finally the master says, "I will send my beloved son: it may be they will reverence him when they see him" (verse 13). Instead, the husbandmen killed him! Said Jesus: "What therefore shall the lord of the vineyard do unto them? He shall come and destroy these husbandmen, and shall give the vineyard to others" (verses 15, 16). Luke recorded the leaders' response: "And the chief priests and the scribes the same hour sought to lay hands on him; and they feared the people; for they perceived that he had spoken this parable against them" (verse 19).

Matthew has Jesus blaming the Jews for the murder of the prophets - "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee" (Matthew 23:37) - and leveling a judgment upon them: "Behold, your house is left unto you desolate" (verse 38).

The Gospels depict Jesus as critical also of national religious rites and of the nation, including the worship at the Temple - criticisms gleefully seen as anti-Jewish polemics. At the start of His ministry Jesus cleansed the Temple from merchants who had turned it into an unsanctified flea market. "And [He] said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called a house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves" (Matthew 21:13). He warns that even the Temple itself, the center of the Jewish religion, will be destroyed: "And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple. And Jesus said unto them. See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down" (Matthew 24:1, 2).

The New Testament, obviously, portrays many Jews in ancient Israel as corrupt, iniquitous, and separated from God. Does this description, therefore, mean that the book is anti-Jewish? For many scholars, both Jew and Gentile, it does.

A Sinful Nation:

A problem exists, though, with that conclusion: line for line, verse for verse, chapter for chapter, the Old Testament has more denunciations than does the New. If criticizing the spiritual ills of ancient Israel is anti-Jewish, then the most anti-Jewish section of the Bible is in not Greek, but Hebrew!

"Ah sinful nation, a people laden with iniquity," says Isaiah about Judah. "A seed of evildoers, children that are corrupters: they have forsaken the Lord" (Isaiah 1:4).

The prophet compares Judah to Sodom and Gomorrah: "Hear the word of the Lord, ye rulers of Sodom; give ear unto the law of our Lord, ye rulers of Sodom; give ear unto the law of our God, ye people of Gomorrah. ... How is the faithful city become an harlot. It was full of judgment; righteousness lodged in it; but now murderers (verses 10-21). The New Testament does speak harshly against corrupt leaders, but so does the Old: "O heads of Jacob," warns Micah, "and ye princes of the house of Israel; Is it not for you to know judgment? Who hate the good, and love the evil; who pluck off their skin from off them, and their flesh from off their bones; who also eat the flesh of my people, and flay their skin from off the" (Micah 3:1-3).

Jesus' denunciations of the priests were no worse than Malachi's" "O priests, that despise my name. Ye offer polluted bread upon mine altar." "And now, O ye priests, this commandment is for you. If ye will not hear, ... I will even send a curse upon you, and I will curse your blessings; yea, I have cursed them already, because ye do not lay it to heart. Behold, I will corrupt your seed, and spread dung upon your faces" (Malachi 1:6, 7; 2:1-3).

The Old Testament has more stories of corrupt leaders than does the New Testament. Ahab, Jehoram, Ahaz, and Manasseh are just a few of the corrupt kings of Israel denounced in the Old Testament. As in the New, rulers and priests are depicted as plotting, scheming, and killing off enemies, including prophets who spoke against them.

Because Luke and Matthew recorded Jesus' warnings of doom upon Israel, they are labeled anti-Jewish. But what about Jeremiah, who recorded the Lord's warning to Israel: "I will bring evil from the north, and a great destruction. The lion is come up from his thicket ... he is gone forth from his place to make thy land desolate; and thy cities shall be laid waste, without an inhabitant" (Jeremiah 4:6, 7).

What about Isaiah who proclaimed: "O Assyrian, the rod of mine anger ... I will send him against an hypocritical nation, and against the people of my wrath will I give him a charge, to take the spoil, and to take the prey, and to tread them down like the mire of the streets" (Isaiah 10:5).

Is Luke's parable of Israel as a vineyard worse than Isaiah's? "I will tell you what I will do to my vineyard: I will take away the hedge thereof, and it shall be eaten up; and break down the wall thereof, and it shall be trodden down" (Isaiah 5:5).

The Gospels record Jesus speaking against corrupt practices in the Temple, but Ezekiel decries the sin of the people who had brought idols into the Temple area, where they prayed to other gods and even worshiped the sun. "Hast thou seen this...? Is it a light thing to the house of Judah that they commit the abominations which they commit here? for they have filled the land with violence" (Ezekiel 8:17), Jesus prophesied against the Temple; so did Amos: "And the songs of the temple shall be howlings in that day, saith the Lord God: there shall be many dead bodies in every place" (Amos 8:3).

Bigots and Enemies:

If these Hebrew texts had been written in the New Testament, they would be added to the long list of other "anti-Jewish" vituperation. But they are from the Old Testament, and yet no one claims that the Old Testament is anti-Jewish.

Why? Because a writer who depicts the spiritual ills of his people can't automatically be branded anti-Jewish. If so, then Ezekiel, Isaiah, Jeremiah, even Moses - almost every Hebrew prophet - would be labeled as anti-Jewish, an absurd claim. Why, however, do Jews such as Matthew and Mark become bigots and enemies when they chronicle the ills of Israel?

In the "Hebrew Bible," writes Jewish scholar Samuel Sandmel, "the prophets of the age before the Babylonian exile provide variations of a similar theme, that the Hebrew people had in their actions proved false to the religious-ethical standards expressed in a covenant with God and expected of a holy people. Accordingly, an Amos, and Isaiah, and a Jeremiah each speak with wondrous poetic eloquence about the shortcomings of the people, whether monarchs or priests or ordinary folk. Clearly these words by the prophets are denunciations from within; surely no one would ascribe to Amos, Isaiah, or Jeremiah that form of hostility which we call anti-Semitism .... It was out of loyalty to them and identification with the people and their religion that the Hebrew prophets spoke their sharp criticisms. When in the Gospels the Jew Jesus speaks in criticism of Jews, is it not reasonable that He too speaks out of loyalty and identification?"

The claim that the new Testament is anti-Jewish because it points out Israel's spiritual ills is as absurd as claiming that the Old Testament is anti-Jewish because it does the same thing. Both Testaments portray human nature as inherently bad. The greatest biblical characters have their spiritual and moral faults on display before the world. Whether Abraham taking Hagar to produce a son, Moses losing his temper, David fornicating with Bathsheba, Peter denying Jesus, or the apostles Paul and Barnabas bickering over John Mark - the sins of humanity are openly displayed. The motif of the sinfulness of man permeates the Hebrew and Greek Scriptures. And because the Jews comprise the main biblical characters, because their lives occupy most of the pages, because Jewish history is the primary focus of the Bible - their dirty laundry has become the most prominent. Even if not as filthy as others, it is Jewish linen that hangs on the line for the world to see.

Blindness of Heart:

And yet the Bible doesn't speak harshly of just Jews. Jesus told His followers not to pray "as the heathen do," and not to pray for the things "the Gentiles seek." Paul writes: "Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols" (I Corinthians 12:2). In Ephesians Paul warns followers that "ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind, having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart: who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness" (Ephesians 4:17-19). In Thessalonians he warns followers to act "not in the lust of concupiscence, even as the Gentiles which known not God" (I Thessalonians 4:5). Is the New Testament, therefore, anti-Gentile too?

The Old Testament also denounces heathens. Israel's problem is that it followed the practices of the Gentile nations. The whole purpose of Israel was to be separate from the Gentiles so that the Jews would "learn not the way of the heathen" (Jeremiah 10:2). Their greatest sins occurred when they followed the sinful practices of the Gentiles. Obviously, sin was a bigger problem for the heathen than it was for the Jews.

Yet the New Testament shows the Jews as not only rejecting Jesus but killing Him, too - a teaching not found in the Old Testament.

No question, The New Testament implicates some Jews in Jesus' death. But whom does Jesus Himself implicate? Talking about the chief priests and scribes, Jesus says that they "shall deliver him to the Gentiles to mock, and to scourge, and to crucify him" (Matthew 20:19). Jesus says that the Gentiles - not Jews - will mock, scourge, and crucify Him. Though some scribes and chief priests were involved, the people who directly killed Jesus - according to Matthew, Mark, Luke and John - were Gentile Romans. If the New Testament is anti-Jewish because it implicates Jews, then it must be anti-Roman or anti-Gentile as well, because Gentile Romans were also involved.

Heroes and Villains:

While the New Testament shows that many Jews rejected Jesus, it shows also that many Jews accepted Him. Indeed, the heroes of the New Testament are Jews who accepted Jesus, while often the villains are Gentiles who rejected Him. Paul wrote epistles from prison, where he was jailed - by Gentiles. In Philippi, Paul and Silas were beaten by Gentiles. In Ephesus, because Paul's preaching hurt the religion of the goddess Diana, he and two companions were dragged into an amphitheater where for two hours the Gentiles - rejecting Paul's message - chanted, "Great is Diana of the Ephesians" (Acts 19:34). At Mars Hill in Athens, after Paul preached, he was mocked and rejected by Athenians - Gentiles. The early persecution of the church, mentioned in Revelation, was conducted by Gentiles. Paul was killed by Gentiles. John was exiled to Patmos by Gentiles. In Luke 21:17 Jesus told His followers that they "shall be hated of all men for my name's sake." "All men" includes Gentiles.

Is the New Testament, therefore, anti-Gentile because it depicts Gentiles as rejecting the gospel? Here, too, the claim of New Testament anti-Judaism is built on straw.

A Fertile Fount:

Even if the New Testament is not a bubbling source of hatred against the Jews, few deny that it has served as a fertile fount of anti-Semitism. Yet throughout history the Bible has been used to justify everything from slavery to Star Wars. Cutting, pasting, and patching verses together, the faithful have made to Bible sanction war, apartheid, celibacy, aid to the contras, genocide, not eating meat on Friday, castration, pacifism, Marxism, cuts in food stamps, the MX missile, sexual promiscuity, burning people alive - and yes, even anti-Semitism.

Indeed, the problem is not with the New Testament or even the Old - but with those who, though reading them, have never leaned the lesson of brotherly love taught within their pages.

wave

Billy Ruben Tue Aug 09, 2011 5:42 pm

el kabong wrote: Notice billyboy, she is so blinded by her ego and hatred she won't even read what I have Posted, for her and her Readers benefit.

I thought we were on ignore?

She won't ever listen,but to the deep mystics of Gin,and with that,a channelled madness that she sees as God...there,that about covers it.

thumbs up

Billy Ruben Tue Aug 09, 2011 5:45 pm

Billy Ruben wrote:
el kabong wrote: Notice billyboy, she is so blinded by her ego and hatred she won't even read what I have Posted, for her and her Readers benefit.

I thought we were on ignore?

She won't ever listen,but to the deep mystics of Gin,and with that,a channelled madness that she sees as God...there,that about covers it.

Do her readers know there is two maybe three sides to True Lilly?
She's a frightful person.She lables people the most hideous things,because they litter her threads,for that misdemeanor,I think the claims about being bashed,car bombed and stalked by international hitmen,might just be a false claim...

jawdrop

Billy Ruben Tue Aug 09, 2011 5:47 pm

el kabong wrote: Notice billyboy, she is so blinded by her ego and hatred she won't even read what I have Posted, for her and her Readers benefit.

Is the New Testament anti-Semitic?
Are there anti-Semitic passages in the NT?
Does the Bible justify persecution of Jews?
Pro-Semitism in the NT
Further reading

Matthew 23:35 (also Lk 11:50-51)
And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar.

Matthew 27:25

All the people answered, "Let his blood be on us and on our children!"

John 8:44 (also Rev 2:9)

You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire.

1 Thessalonians 2:14-16

You suffered from your own countrymen the same things those churches suffered from the Jews, who killed the Lord Jesus and the prophets and also drove us out. They displease God and are hostile to all men in their effort to keep us from speaking to the Gentiles so that they may be saved. In this way they always heap up their sins to the limit. The wrath of God has come upon them at last.

Revelation 3:9

I will make those who are of the synagogue of Satan, who claim to be Jews though they are not, but are liars - I will make them come and fall down at your feet and acknowledge that I have loved you.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Are the above passages anti-Semitic?

Matthew 27:25 is assumed to be anti-Semitic, not to mention absurd, because it has the Jews voluntarily accepting the blame for Jesus' death (for the context of the passage, see Matthew 27:15-26).

As for its absurdity, we ourselves make similar statements today. One can readily imagine someone commenting on a trial and saying, "I'll be damned if he's innocent." Does the speaker really mean that they will accept eternal condemnation if they're wrong about the guilt of the defendant? Of course not - and neither did the crowd that called for Jesus' death. The statement in Matthew is most likely recording a common form of hyperbole, not the crowd's admission of guilt.

As for the other passages, one must distinguish between what they are and are not saying.

They are saying that people who reject Christ are rejecting both God and the provision he's made for the forgiveness of their wrongs, and will therefore be condemned.

They are not saying that all people born to Jewish parents (or parents of any particular race, for that matter) are condemned. God's judgment is not based on biology or other factors outside an individual's control, but on the individual's choices. Those who choose to accept Christ as their God and accept the forgiveness he provides will be spared punishment, regardless of whether they were born into a Jewish or Gentile family. Those who reject Christ will be condemned, again regardless of their ethnic heritage. Hence these passages are not referring to all Jews as a racial group.

On the other hand, the above passages and others in the New Testament do say that those who are religiously Jewish, i.e. who practice Judaism and don't believe Jesus is the Messiah or Son of God, will be condemned.

Is this anti-Semitic or a bias against Judaism? Actually, this is no different than Judaism's condemnation of those who reject Jehovah[1].

Is Judaism racist or prejudiced for condemning those who don't believe in it? No, for it is condemning those who wrongly reject God and do evil. The basis for salvation or condemnation in Judaism is one's choosing to follow or reject God, just as it is in Christianity.

Some will object that the passages refer to "the Jews" and not to individuals, implying that Jews in general are being condemned. To clear this up, one should review the surrounding context of the verses. For example, in John 8 Jesus was speaking to a specific group of Jews, "the Jews who had believed him"[2] and who attempted to stone him once the conversation was finished.[3] In 1 Thessalonians 2, Paul was referring to Jews who had rejected God and resorted to violence. In both cases, the speaker was himself ethnically Jewish, and the Jews who were condemned were those who had clearly rejected God by their actions. These same people would have been condemned by the tenets of Judaism as well, for they were opposed to God and also broke the Law by committing murder.
The first passage in Matthew is addressed further in Does God punish children for their parents' sins?

Do John 8:44 and Revelation 2:9, 3:9 justify persecution of Jews?

Anyone who attempts to use these passages to justify persecuting Jews is going against the teachings of the following passages:

I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, so that you may not be conceited:
Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in. And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:
"The deliverer will come from Zion;
he will turn godlessness away from Jacob.
And this is my covenant with them
when I take away their sins."

As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies on your account; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, for God's gifts and his call are irrevocable.

Just as you who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of their disobedience, so they too have now become disobedient in order that they too may now receive mercy as a result of God's mercy to you. (Rom 11:25-31, emphasis mine)

And [Jesus] sent messengers on ahead, who went into a Samaritan village to get things ready for him; but the people there did not welcome him, because he was heading for Jerusalem. When the disciples James and John saw this, they asked, "Lord, do you want us to call fire down from heaven to destroy them?" But Jesus turned and rebuked them, and they went to another village. (Lk 9:52-56)

In other words, Christians are to love Jews specifically and are not to take God's judgment into their own hands. Do these passages contradict John 8:44 and Revelation? No, for God - who knows perfectly what is right and knows everything about us - is justified in condemning those who reject him. The point here is that mere humans do not have the right to do all the things that God is entitled to do, in particular execute judgment on those who reject Christ. Christians have no right to harm Jews or others who don't follow Christ, for all humans are made in God's image[4] and are loved by God. Christians are not inherently more righteous than non-Christians, for "there is no one who is righteous;"[5] thus Christians have to right to look down on Jews, let alone persecute them. In fact, Paul explicitly tells Gentiles they have no basis for an attitude of superiority towards non-Christian Jews:
I am talking to you Gentiles...If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, do not boast over those branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. You will say then, "Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in." Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith.

Do not be arrogant, but be afraid. For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either.
Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off. And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. After all, if you were cut out of an olive tree that is wild by nature, and contrary to nature were grafted into a cultivated olive tree, how much more readily will these, the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree! (Rom 11:13, 17-24)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pro-Semitism in the NT The New Testament has always struck me as being strongly pro-Semitic rather than anti-Semitic, because of the following passages.

In the Gospels:

•Matthew 1:1-17 and Luke 3:23-38 emphasize that Jesus was Jewish and a descendent of David
•Matthew 10:5-6 - Jesus instructs the disciples to take the Gospel to the Jews first, not the Gentiles
•Matthew 15:21-28 - Jesus tells a Gentile woman that he was sent to save the Jews first
•The Jews are far from being the only ones involved in Christ's persecution and crucifixion. Pilate let Jesus be crucified despite realizing his innocence (Mk 15:9-15) and the Roman soldiers mocked and persecuted Jesus, as well as doing the actual crucifying (Mt 27:27-31, Lk 23:11, 35-37).
•John 4:22 - "Salvation is from the Jews" (i.e. from Jesus, David's descendant)
In Acts:
•4:27 - Herod, Pilate and the Gentiles in Jerusalem (not just the Jews) conspired against Jesus
•11:1-18 - In the account of Peter and Cornelius, the Jews are amazed that God is merciful enough to save "even the (unclean) Gentiles."
•14:1, 17:10-12 - Paul follows Jesus' model of going to the Jews first, and many Jews accept Jesus as the Messiah
In the Pauline Epistles:
•Romans 1:16 - Salvation is "first for the Jew, then for the Gentile"
•Romans 9:1-5 - Paul (who is Jewish) describes his desire for the Israelites to receive Christ and the honors the Israelites have received, including that Jesus' human ancestry was through them
•Romans 11:1-24 - Paul warns the Gentiles against boasting, comparing them to wild olive branches and the Jews to cultivated olive branches
•Romans 11:28 - Even those Jews who reject Christ are to be "loved on account of the patriarchs."
•Romans 15:27 - "For if the Gentiles have shared in the Jews' spiritual blessings, they owe it to the Jews to share with them their material blessings."
•Galatians 2:7-9 - At least three of the apostles had a specific ministry to the Jews
•Galatians 2:11-13 - Rather than an anti-Semitic prejudice, the early church had if anything a pro-Semitic prejudice, as evidenced by Peter and others discriminating against Gentiles
In Revelation:
•7:2-8 - "144,000 from the tribes of Israel" are sealed with God's seal
•21:12 - The names of the twelve tribes of Israel are written on the gates of the new Jerusalem

Blessed with the light of the truth,punished by the length of the text...pleasure and pain all in one...this was'nt here before by the way...

MoMo Tue Aug 09, 2011 5:48 pm

Billy Ruben wrote:
Billy Ruben wrote:
el kabong wrote: Notice billyboy, she is so blinded by her ego and hatred she won't even read what I have Posted, for her and her Readers benefit.

I thought we were on ignore?

She won't ever listen,but to the deep mystics of Gin,and with that,a channelled madness that she sees as God...there,that about covers it.

Do her readers know there is two maybe three sides to True Lilly?
She's a frightful person.She lables people the most hideous things,because they litter her threads,for that misdemeanor,I think the claims about being bashed,car bombed and stalked by international hitmen,might just be a false claim...

She remains clueless billyboy. But I'm drillin down on her. Gotta say tho........I've drilled into Tundra that wasn't as frosty as her. lmao

Billy Ruben Tue Aug 09, 2011 5:49 pm

SPAM,SPAM,SPAM,SPAM,SPAM,SPAM,SPAM...

rolf

MoMo Tue Aug 09, 2011 5:49 pm

el kabong wrote:
true lilly wrote: ...............................
"tintin" is Knowingly, Willingly, MADLY
PREACHING FILTHY, MURDEROUS LIES.

And that he doesn't even bother to try to
explain away why he no longer admits
the truth of God's Word, as he once, so
boldly and publicly did, is also, yet another
sign, of how very little respect he has for
all his readers.

sheesh...don't look now Lilly; Queen of Bullshit..but so are you.

You have got to learn to step outside of your overgrown, mammoth, gargantuan EGO and 'GIVE'.

The Title of the Last Book in the Book of Yahweh is:

Chazuz Yahshua Hamashiach ashar natan lu ha Yahweh Abim bayid Malaku lao badu Yahchannan= Revealing the Revelation of Yahweh our Father through Yahshua Messiah His Son given to Yahchannan/John by the Malakh/Angel.

Yahweh whispers to us in our pleasures; speaks to us in our consciences and shouts to us in our pains.

It has always been thus; it will always be so; The Well of Grief is fed by the Springs of Memory.

Those who set out to torment others often find themselves tormented by their own hand. This is the Devils Burden.

Each culture dresses the demon of its hatred in the garb of righteousness.

In humans, the personalities that could have been are always there, always uncomfortable in their imprisonment and periodically they scream from the Dungeons of their minds demanding their freedom.

In Hebraic thought; the whole Function of the Torah and the Testimony is to turn the Soul away from the things of the flesh. During our life our soul either attaches itself to the things of the flesh-to the Path of Darkness; or it attaches itself to the things of the Spirit; becoming a Child of the Light. Capiche?

The Biblical commandments were given not for the sake of imposing rules and restrictions on people limiting their free will but as a Divine Communication that can be seen as generous-teaching/instructing Human Beings how Life Works and what to do and not do to make the best of it.

Within the Mitzvot/Commandments are all the Instruction/Torah necessary for human conduct in order to help people avoid negative consequences and repercussions and also to reap great benefits from living in alignment with the Laws of the Universe.

Who is wise? They who can foresee the consequences of their actions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIF4_Sm-rgQ

cheers

Billy Ruben Tue Aug 09, 2011 5:55 pm

el kabong wrote:
Billy Ruben wrote:
Billy Ruben wrote:
el kabong wrote: Notice billyboy, she is so blinded by her ego and hatred she won't even read what I have Posted, for her and her Readers benefit.

I thought we were on ignore?

She won't ever listen,but to the deep mystics of Gin,and with that,a channelled madness that she sees as God...there,that about covers it.

Do her readers know there is two maybe three sides to True Lilly?
She's a frightful person.She lables people the most hideous things,because they litter her threads,for that misdemeanor,I think the claims about being bashed,car bombed and stalked by international hitmen,might just be a false claim...

She remains clueless billyboy. But I'm drillin down on her. Gotta say tho........I've drilled into Tundra that wasn't as frosty as her.

sHE'LL CRY TO sOD,BUT THIS TIME,SHE'S GOT NO ARGUEMENT...whoops,Capslock,...I'm a babyfucker...so is Ciggy,he might be a lot of things,but fucking underage chicks isn't one of them,he gave me heaps for not clipping Col under the ear,instead of the big circus it turned into.He roots teen chicks of age,yes,legal,and they're willing for the experience,kids their age just wanting blowjobs and a quick two minute root.Me,I got screwed up by it,cause of the complexities I spose.But I know what I like and it isn't anything perverse or illegal.Quite straight actually,just play games,with peoples rumours...But this Lilly bird,nasty cold reptile,that's why she got that avatar on my phone...a green dragon...

lol!

true lilly Tue Aug 09, 2011 5:56 pm

Foes are members whose messages will not be visible
and who won't be able to send you Private Messages
or post on your Wall.

Note that you cannot ignore
the moderators or the administrators.
Foes list
Ciggy

Apocalypse=REVELATION, NOT 'the end of the world'... Empty

el kabong

Add a foe
el kabong, AGAIN!

So, WHY even try to continue to convert me,?

"tintin" couldn't do it, in person, with all his money,
connections, threats made, and carried out?

How bloody weak are 'you',
to need to keep hammering me!

How weak...'they' can't even shut a door...

And ²⁵³² to the angel ³² of the church ¹⁵⁷⁷ in ¹⁷²²
Philadelphia ⁵³⁵⁹ write ¹¹²⁵ ;
These things ³⁵⁹² saith ³⁰⁰⁴ he that is holy ⁴⁰,
he that is true ²²⁸,
he that hath ²¹⁹² the key ²⁸⁰⁷ of David ¹¹³⁸,
he that openeth ⁴⁵⁵ ,
and ²⁵³² no man ³⁷⁶² shutteth ²⁸⁰⁸ ;
and ²⁵³² shutteth ²⁸⁰⁸ ,
and ²⁵³² no man ³⁷⁶² openeth ⁴⁵⁵ ;

I know ¹⁴⁹² thy ⁴⁶⁷⁵ works ²⁰⁴¹:
behold ²⁴⁰⁰ ,
I have set ¹³²⁵ before ¹⁷⁹⁹ thee ⁴⁶⁷⁵
an open ⁴⁵⁵ door ²³⁷⁴,
and ²⁵³² no man ³⁷⁶² can ¹⁴¹⁰ shut ²⁸⁰⁸ it ⁸⁴⁶:
for ³⁷⁵⁴ thou hast ²¹⁹² a little ³³⁹⁸ strength ¹⁴¹¹,
and ²⁵³² hast kept ⁵⁰⁸³ my ³⁴⁵⁰ word ³⁰⁵⁶,
and ²⁵³² hast ⁷²⁰ ⁰ not ³⁷⁵⁶ denied ⁷²⁰ my ³⁴⁵⁰ name ³⁶⁸⁶.

Behold ²⁴⁰⁰ , I will make ¹³²⁵ them
of ¹⁵³⁷ the synagogue ⁴⁸⁶⁴ of Satan ⁴⁵⁶⁷,
which ³⁵⁸⁸ say ³⁰⁰⁴ they ¹⁴³⁸ are ¹⁵¹¹ Jews ²⁴⁵³,
and ²⁵³² are ¹⁵²⁶ not ³⁷⁵⁶,
but ²³⁵ do lie ⁵⁵⁷⁴ ;
behold ²⁴⁰⁰ , I will make ⁴¹⁶⁰ them ⁸⁴⁶
to ²⁴⁴³ come ²²⁴⁰ and ²⁵³² worship ⁴³⁵²
before ¹⁷⁹⁹ thy ⁴⁶⁷⁵ feet ⁴²²⁸,
and ²⁵³² to know ¹⁰⁹⁷ that ³⁷⁵⁴
I ¹⁴⁷³ have loved ²⁵ thee ⁴⁵⁷¹.

P.S. again; 'you' have and use the whole world wide web
to deceive and convert people to 'your' Synagog of Satan.

I am one opposing voice to all of 'your' satanic preaching.

And it terrifies 'you' that some, one, just may, here that
opposing view, and take the time to explore it themselves.

So 'you' must, scream at cry and rant and rave against 'me',
as if I invented God, His Authority and His Word, that 'you'
have sacrificed 'your' lives, to Preach AGAINST.

And the earth ⁷⁷⁶ was ¹⁹⁶¹ without form ⁸⁴¹⁴,
and void ⁹²²;
and darkness ²⁸²² [was] upon the face ⁶⁴⁴⁰ of the deep ⁸⁴¹⁵.
And the Spirit ⁷³⁰⁷ of God ⁴³⁰ moved ⁷³⁶³
upon ⁵⁹²¹ the face ⁶⁴⁴⁰ of the waters ⁴³²⁵.

And God ⁴³⁰ said ⁵⁵⁹ ,
Let there be a firmament ⁷⁵⁴⁹
in the midst ⁸⁴³² of the waters ⁴³²⁵,
and let it divide ⁹¹⁴ the waters ⁴³²⁵
from the waters ⁴³²⁵.

And God ⁴³⁰ said ⁵⁵⁹ ,
Let the waters ⁴³²⁵ under the heaven ⁸⁰⁶⁴
be gathered together ⁶⁹⁶⁰ unto ⁴¹³ one ²⁵⁹ place ⁴⁷²⁵,
and let the dry ³⁰⁰⁴ [land] appear ⁷²⁰⁰ :
and it was so.

And God ⁴³⁰ called ⁷¹²¹ the dry ³⁰⁰⁴ [land] Earth ⁷⁷⁶;
and the gathering together ⁴⁷²³ of the waters ⁴³²⁵
called ⁷¹²¹ he Seas ³²²⁰:
and God ⁴³⁰ saw ⁷²⁰⁰ that [it was] good ²⁸⁹⁶.

And God ⁴³⁰ said ⁵⁵⁹ ,
Let us make ⁶²¹³ man ¹²⁰ in our image ⁶⁷⁵⁴,
after our likeness ¹⁸²³:
and let them have dominion ⁷²⁸⁷
over the fish ¹⁷¹⁰ of the sea ³²²⁰,
and over the fowl ⁵⁷⁷⁵ of the air ⁸⁰⁶⁴,
and over the cattle ⁹²⁹,
and over all the earth ⁷⁷⁶,
and over every creeping thing ⁷⁴³¹
that creepeth ⁷⁴³⁰ upon the earth ⁷⁷⁶.

AND, All this was LONG BEFORE DEATH ENTERED,
LONG BEFORE THE AGE of NOAH which was
EVEN LONGER BEFORE, THAT ONE LAND MASS DIVIDED.

HE DESCRIBED THE WHOLE WORLD,
FROM THE BEGINNING.

'you' DEMAND THE WORLD BELIEVE,
that THE CREATOR of ALL THERE EVER WAS
WAS NOT EVEN THERE, IN THE BEGINNING.

So that 'you' can shove that filthy, insane,
WAY TOO SHORT, "out of DEATH WORSHIPING Egypt"
"time-line" HOODWINK over All The World's Heads.

Billy Ruben Tue Aug 09, 2011 6:02 pm

If Lilly's claims or hints are correct,she's well connected and not to be toyed with.She has religeous followers and they can be petty dangerous people,that the police rely on for information,that's why I used to drop hints on my movements here before,testing a theory.
She has contacts in the media,and they're people I would never trust,and I have had dealings with them,but so controversial,they never aired my episode,hehehehehehehee,I even admit the media sway public opinion on camera,and that thay are a dangerous tool,it was channel 9,Packers channel,93,when I got done for dope plants.But let off...

Cool

Billy Ruben Tue Aug 09, 2011 6:05 pm

true lilly wrote:Foes are members whose messages will not be visible

and who won't be able to send you Private Messages

or post on your Wall.

Note that you cannot ignore

the moderators or the administrators.
Foes listCiggy
el kabong
Add a foeel kabong, AGAIN!So, WHY even try to continue to convert me,?

"tintin" couldn't do it, in person, with all his money,
connections, threats made, and carried out?

How bloody weak are 'you',
to need to keep hammering me!

Oi,Billy Ruben isn't on the list and Ciggy is and he isn't even posting,do you fear Mr Ciggy the most,he'll take that as a compliment most high?

I must be amusing for you to be kept off the foes list eh?I make you smile...

true lilly Tue Aug 09, 2011 6:44 pm

Billy Ruben wrote:
true lilly wrote:Foes are members whose messages will not be visible

and who won't be able to send you Private Messages

or post on your Wall.

Note that you cannot ignore

the moderators or the administrators.
Foes listCiggy
el kabong
Add a foeel kabong, AGAIN!So, WHY even try to continue to convert me,?

"tintin" couldn't do it, in person, with all his money,
connections, threats made, and carried out?

How bloody weak are 'you',
to need to keep hammering me!

Oi,Billy Ruben isn't on the list and Ciggy is and he isn't even posting,do you fear Mr Ciggy the most,he'll take that as a compliment most high?

I must be amusing for you to be kept off the foes list eh?I make you smile...

I had some reason at the time,
board or something unimportant,
not worth remembering,
then,
billy kept texting me,
and I simply wanted to
compare his contradictions.

anyway...

[[[A Psalm] for Solomon ⁸⁰¹⁰.]]
Give ⁵⁴¹⁴ the king ⁴⁴²⁸ thy judgments ⁴⁹⁴¹,
O God ⁴³⁰,
and thy righteousness ⁶⁶⁶⁶
unto the king's ⁴⁴²⁸ son ¹¹²¹.

He shall judge ¹⁷⁷⁷ thy people ⁵⁹⁷¹
with righteousness ⁶⁶⁶⁴,
and thy poor ⁶⁰⁴¹ with judgment ⁴⁹⁴¹.

The mountains ²⁰²² shall bring ⁵³⁷⁵
peace ⁷⁹⁶⁵ to the people ⁵⁹⁷¹,
and the little hills ¹³⁸⁹, by righteousness ⁶⁶⁶⁶.

He shall judge ⁸¹⁹⁹ the poor ⁶⁰⁴¹ of the people ⁵⁹⁷¹,
he shall save ³⁴⁶⁷ the children ¹¹²¹ of the needy ³⁴,
and shall break in pieces ¹⁷⁹² the oppressor ⁶²³¹ .

true lilly Tue Aug 09, 2011 8:55 pm

true lilly wrote:
Billy Ruben wrote:
true lilly wrote:Foes are members whose messages will not be visible
and who won't be able to send you Private Messages or post on your Wall.

Note that you cannot ignore
the moderators or the administrators.
Foes list
Ciggy
el kabong

Add a foe: el kabong, AGAIN!

So, WHY even try to continue to convert me,?

"tintin" couldn't do it, in person, with all his money,
connections, threats made, and carried out?

How bloody weak are 'you',
to need to keep hammering me!
Oi,Billy Ruben isn't on the list and Ciggy is and he isn't even posting,do you fear Mr Ciggy the most,he'll take that as a compliment most high?

I must be amusing for you to be kept off the foes list eh?I make you smile...
I had some reason at the time,
board or something unimportant,
not worth remembering,
then,
billy kept texting me,
and I simply wanted to
compare his contradictions.

anyway...

[[[A Psalm] for Solomon ⁸⁰¹⁰.]]
Give ⁵⁴¹⁴ the king ⁴⁴²⁸ thy judgments ⁴⁹⁴¹,
O God ⁴³⁰,
and thy righteousness ⁶⁶⁶⁶
unto the king's ⁴⁴²⁸ son ¹¹²¹.

He shall judge ¹⁷⁷⁷ thy people ⁵⁹⁷¹
with righteousness ⁶⁶⁶⁴,
and thy poor ⁶⁰⁴¹ with judgment ⁴⁹⁴¹.

The mountains ²⁰²² shall bring ⁵³⁷⁵
peace ⁷⁹⁶⁵ to the people ⁵⁹⁷¹,
and the little hills ¹³⁸⁹, by righteousness ⁶⁶⁶⁶.

He shall judge ⁸¹⁹⁹ the poor ⁶⁰⁴¹ of the people ⁵⁹⁷¹,
he shall save ³⁴⁶⁷ the children ¹¹²¹ of the needy ³⁴,
and shall break in pieces ¹⁷⁹² the oppressor ⁶²³¹ .

In his days ³¹¹⁷
shall the righteous ⁶⁶⁶² flourish ⁶⁵²⁴ ;
and abundance ⁷²³⁰ of peace ⁷⁹⁶⁵
so long as the moon ³³⁹⁴ endureth.

He shall have dominion ⁷²⁸⁷
also from sea ³²²⁰ to sea ³²²⁰,
and from the river ⁵¹⁰⁴
unto the ends ⁶⁵⁷ of the earth ⁷⁷⁶.

They that dwell in the wilderness ⁶⁷²⁸
shall bow ³⁷⁶⁶ before ⁶⁴⁴⁰ him;
and his enemies ³⁴¹ shall lick ³⁸⁹⁷ the dust ⁶⁰⁸³.

The kings ⁴⁴²⁸ of Tarshish ⁸⁶⁵⁹
and of the isles ³³⁹ shall bring ⁷⁷²⁵ presents ⁴⁵⁰³:
the kings ⁴⁴²⁸ of Sheba ⁷⁶¹⁴
and Seba ⁵⁴³⁴ shall offer ⁷¹²⁶ gifts ⁸¹⁴.

Yea, all kings ⁴⁴²⁸ shall fall down ⁷⁸¹² before him:
all nations ¹⁴⁷¹ shall serve ⁵⁶⁴⁷ him.

For he shall deliver ⁵³³⁷ the needy ³⁴ when he crieth ⁷⁷⁶⁸ ;
the poor ⁶⁰⁴¹ also, and [him] that hath no helper ⁵⁸²⁶ .

...Give ⁵⁴¹⁴ the king ⁴⁴²⁸ thy judgments ⁴⁹⁴¹,
O God ⁴³⁰,
and thy righteousness ⁶⁶⁶⁶
unto the king's ⁴⁴²⁸son ^1121.

1) king

From מָלַךְ (H4427)

1) to be or become king or queen, reign
a) (Qal) to be or become king or queen, reign
b) (Hiphil) to make one king or queen,
cause to reign
c) (Hophal) to be made king or queen
2) to counsel, advise
a) (Niphal) to consider
A primitive root

son ¹¹²¹.

1) son, grandson, child, member of a group
a) son, male child
b) grandson
c) children (pl. - male and female)
d) youth, young men (pl.)
e) young (of animals)
f) sons (as characterisation,
i.e. sons of injustice [for un- righteous men]
or sons of God [for angels]
g) people (of a nation) (pl.)
h) of lifeless things, i.e. sparks, stars, arrows (fig.)
i) a member of a guild, order, class

From בָּנָה (H1129)

1) to build, rebuild, establish, cause to continue
a) (Qal)
1) to build, rebuild
2) to build a house (ie, establish a family)
b) (Niphal)
1) to be built
2) to be rebuilt
3) established (of restored exiles) (fig.)
4) established (made permanent)
5) to be built up (of childless wife
becoming the mother of a family
through the children of a concubine)
A primitive root

Yep, there is a lot said, in only those two words
(something all poets and psalmists understand),
but there are also words, rendered as 'king', 'son',
and 'kingdom', with other meanings,
in other contexts of Time and Place, such as:

[As] I live ²⁴¹⁶, saith ⁵⁰⁰² the Lord ¹³⁶ GOD ³⁰⁶⁹,
surely in the place ⁴⁷²⁵ [where] the king ⁴⁴²⁸
[dwelleth] that made him king ⁴⁴²⁷ ,
whose oath ⁴²³ he despised ⁹⁵⁹ ,
and whose covenant ¹²⁸⁵ he brake ⁶⁵⁶⁵ ,
[even] with him in the midst ⁸⁴³² of Babylon ⁸⁹⁴
he shall die ⁴¹⁹¹ .

And the beginning ⁷²²⁵ of his kingdom ⁴⁴⁶⁷
was Babel ⁸⁹⁴, and Erech ⁷⁵¹, and Accad ³⁹⁰,
and Calneh ³⁶⁴¹, in the land ⁷⁷⁶ of Shinar ⁸¹⁵².

And the LORD ³⁰⁶⁸ said ⁵⁵⁹ unto him,
Call ⁷¹²¹ his name ⁸⁰³⁴ Jezreel ³¹⁵⁷;
for yet a little ⁴⁵⁹² [while], and I will avenge ⁶⁴⁸⁵
the blood ¹⁸¹⁸ of Jezreel ³¹⁵⁷
upon the house ¹⁰⁰⁴ of Jehu ³⁰⁵⁸,
and will cause to cease ⁷⁶⁷³ the kingdom ⁴⁴⁶⁸
of the house ¹⁰⁰⁴ of Israel ³⁴⁷⁸.

For the kingdom ⁴⁴¹⁰ [is] the LORD'S ³⁰⁶⁸:
and he [is] the governor ⁴⁹¹⁰ among the nations ¹⁴⁷¹.

Thou ⁶⁰⁷, O king ⁴⁴³⁰,
[art] a king ⁴⁴³⁰ of kings ⁴⁴³⁰:
for the God ⁴²⁶ of heaven ⁸⁰⁶⁵
hath given ³⁰⁵² thee a kingdom ⁴⁴³⁷,
power ²⁶³², and strength ⁸⁶³², and glory ³³⁶⁷.

...and so on and on, throughout God's Word,
if one cares to study, compare, test and let,
Holy Scripture interpret Holy Scripture, what
the enemy call 'loose bricks'='contradictions',
one will find are in fact, the little details,
caveats and clarifications, that Prove The Truth
of The Faithfulness of God and His Living Word.

...and makes clear,
the (WHOLE WORLD, ALL EARTH, ALL PEOPLES,
FROM THE BEGINNING), ACTUAL,
TIME LINE that GOD'S WORD DESCRIBES and
good, modern science keeps confirming.

Oh, and don't get excited and stumble over:

and will cause to cease ⁷⁶⁷³ the kingdom ⁴⁴⁶⁸
of the house ¹⁰⁰⁴ of Israel ³⁴⁷⁸.

...remember, it's;
line upon line,
here a little, there a little,
precept upon precept,
command upon command...

...and ALWAYS REMEMBER that
the prince of death is NOT CREATIVE
so in his futile effort to
usurp David's Crown
and try to make himself 'god',
needs to take & twist the words of
The Creator of Life, Who CAN'T LIE,
and IS PERFECTLY JUST. Smile

true lilly Wed Aug 10, 2011 2:46 am

Billy Ruben wrote:SPAM,SPAM,SPAM,SPAM,SPAM,SPAM,SPAM...

I take great offense at that.

Far from 'spam'; first, prayer, then reading what I open at, then going to the site,
searching the passages (only to find my computer setting's been changed again,
and having to start again), then format, and re-re-re-fixing the format that gets
changed, and a bunch of other stuff we Luddites with weak p.c.'s must contend
with. Like referring to actual books, which means getting out the glasses...ah,
it's work I tells ya, real, actual work, that I care to do...for others, for nix...
so there, grumble bum tongue

But, this is the thread that 'you' so do NOT want anyone to stumble upon,
even 'your own', in case they actually, finally, GET IT.

And so, 'you have kept me busy with light banter', hoping to, what, shut me up,
permanently, before I add more here? nah, I needed a break from deep thought,
and you, again, fell in the pit you were digging for me Razz

...duh duhh, duh duh,
duh, duh. ...

If this isn't straight enough for you,
it's because you are bent, beyond untwisting:

true lilly Wed Aug 10, 2011 7:38 am

Billy Ruben wrote:

true lilly wrote:
Clear all your discussions on excusing lusting over related children,
and the rest of your off topic filth and dribble from my threads, and
I will be publicly grateful.

P.S. but we both know this site isn't really 'public' Wink

Lilly,Pop my Lolly Apocalypse=REVELATION, NOT 'the end of the world'... 814465

NO! For the umpteenth time, NO!

...and now your WOmen 'friends' must know,
"you are only up their arse, cos you can't get class"
(yeah, I know, on the verge of being 'oxymoronic',
but sometimes that's the only way to speak with
morons; in their, all too common, tongue tongue

),
and I did warn you, it goes 'public' now...

...oh, and keep digging, you may get to China,
where I also have relatives... Wink

...and don't forget,
those, East Manhattan, scientist and actor Jews... Apocalypse=REVELATION, NOT 'the end of the world'... 93349

...and another was ASIO...and another, a big bad warfie...
...and I wish I could explain why that is all... so funny... Apocalypse=REVELATION, NOT 'the end of the world'... 233183

Apocalypse=REVELATION, NOT 'the end of the world'... 233183

...true, all true...but so, so, funny...well, ya gotta larf...or not...
...most who brand me, 'loser', are too busy Apocalypse=REVELATION, NOT 'the end of the world'... 567573

, to laugh... Apocalypse=REVELATION, NOT 'the end of the world'... 252310

...

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