Hey Rodin!

Lady Tis-Shine Thu Sep 08, 2011 5:56 am

Why do you not join Hagbard Celine's HPNWO forum and hey there is a Jewish gentleman who hates a lot of people over there. cthulhu

Here you can speak your mind, but over there it might be a revelation.
http://hpanwoforum.freeforums.org/index.php
cthulhu

Lady Tis-Shine Thu Sep 08, 2011 6:35 am

Anyway Rodin, I do not in the slightest support you and your Anti-Everything thread and stop giving David Icke a bad name OK!
The Holocaust, did unfortunately happen and JFK's wife was a CATHOLIC of Frnech descent and she did not kill him at all.

John Drake Thu Sep 08, 2011 7:04 am

So you want this known anti semite to join handbags forum and you wave the fact there is a jewish person there as bait to do so but your not trying to stir up anti semitic conflict lol yeah right Tiswas.

You are anti semitic, your outbursts have shown this. Like the time you threatened to bomb the "yid" embassy or gas it.

Lady Tis-Shine Thu Sep 08, 2011 7:15 am

Let us see if you can destroy Rodin over there like you allegedly destroyed Martin Timothy in Il forum, you are a liar and you know it OK.
It is fun to rile you up and I enjoy feeding off your energies, anyway billy Ruben and el Kabong have dealt with this man, and also Ciggy I am pained to say! cthulhu

John Drake Thu Sep 08, 2011 7:30 am

Tiswas you are clearly trying to get him over there to stir up anti semitic conflict otherwise you would have no need to mention theres Jews there.

rodin Mon Sep 12, 2011 2:07 am

John Drake wrote:Tiswas you are clearly trying to get him over there to stir up anti semitic conflict otherwise you would have no need to mention theres Jews there.

lol there's Jews everywhere

There was a poll on DIF that asked 'are you Jewish' and 13% were. Wherever there is power or influence expect a massive over-representation based on demographics.

Hollywood, media, banking... many know these to be Jewish domains. But what about the Houses of Parliament.

Cameron is the Tory Leader - he is proud of his Jewish heritage

Miliband is the Labour leader - he is Jewish

Bercow is the 'Speaker of the House'. The SotH is above parties and keeps order. He is Jewish

2/3 of the House are members of 'Friends of Israel'

That, my friend, is our representative government

Here is how we got there

… the English Civil War provided the basis for a major acceleration of enclosures. The parliamentary leaders supported the rights of landlords vis-a-vis the King, whose Star Chamber court, abolished in 1641, had provided the primary legal brake on the enclosure process. By dealing an ultimately crippling blow to the monarchy [...] the Civil War paved the way for the eventual rise to power in the 18th century of what has been called a “committee of Landlords”, a prelude to the UK’s parliamentary system.”

http://epinoiasphere.wordpress.com/2011/08/07/historys-greatest-swindle/#comment-57

rodin Mon Sep 12, 2011 2:15 am

Aunt Tiswas wrote:Let us see if you can destroy Rodin over there like you allegedly destroyed Martin Timothy in Il forum, you are a liar and you know it OK.
It is fun to rile you up and I enjoy feeding off your energies, anyway billy Ruben and el Kabong have dealt with this man, and also Ciggy I am pained to say!

What happened to Ciggy? I remember he examined my JFK analysis with a view to pulling it to pieces and in the end could not find fault with it

Lady Tis-Shine Mon Sep 12, 2011 6:48 am

Well Rodin, why not make a thread of it in this forum and anyway, why are you so ANIT-JEWISH yourself. Is it because of the NWO or is it something else? Anyway ignore Droike for he will bait anyone because the man is a NOTHING who is too coward to face people in real-life, but your threads can give Mr David Icke trouble in the DIF. cthulhu

rodin Mon Sep 12, 2011 7:05 am

Aunt Tiswas wrote:Well Rodin, why not make a thread of it in this forum and anyway, why are you so ANIT-JEWISH yourself. Is it because of the NWO or is it something else? Anyway ignore Droike for he will bait anyone because the man is a NOTHING who is too coward to face people in real-life, but your threads can give Mr David Icke trouble in the DIF.

In times of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

911 was the catalyst for me. Before then I merely thought governments were stuffed with jobsworths running a self-serving bureaucracy. Then I found out governments run a game where good is bad. My other route was by researching the money system and the Federal Reserve. Finding corruption everywhere I also looked into science, where I am quite active.

I saw David Cole's film and began to suspect the Holocaust too was a hoax. I learned about the Russian Revolution, who was behind that.

Hollywood and the media are of course also complicit.

Wherever I looked I found Jews (mostly) running the show. It's just what I have learned from research. I have known some Jews personally, so I have a passing insight into their characters, but until recently never suspected they were a secret organisation. Now I think to a formidable extent they are.

Having read The protocols of Zion I can see how they mirror (ie predict) what has happened in the past century. To me they are a very clever and comprehensive set of plans. I do not think they are a forgery, I think they are a contemporary statement of a long-running plan.

Lady Tis-Shine Mon Sep 12, 2011 7:17 am

Accd to some people Rodin, Mr David Icke is classed as an Anti Semite, but you will have to put some of your threads here.

rodin Mon Sep 12, 2011 8:14 am

Aunt Tiswas wrote:Accd to some people Rodin, Mr David Icke is classed as an Anti Semite, but you will have to put some of your threads here.

The Mafia appear to be Ashkenazi or no fixed appearance almost exclusively.

As to 'will have to put' some of my threads 'here' what on Earth do you mean?

MoMo Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:36 am

rodin wrote:

Having read The protocols of Zion I can see how they mirror (ie predict) what has happened in the past century. To me they are a very clever and comprehensive set of plans. I do not think they are a forgery, I think they are a contemporary statement of a long-running plan.

Rodin, your 'beliefs' are the enemy of truth. Numerous times you have been provided with the Truth, Historical Facts that the Protocolz of the Elderz of Zion are frauds, the Documents were originally about Christians.........like you Hitler 'believed' these frauds and ultimately shot himself in the head after destroying his nation and people.....the same fate awaits you.............here is what the Jews 'believe' and their Plan...........This is what the Old Testament and the New Testament teach............what is your opinion? Are you going to be part of the Solution, or by lying and misrepresenting are you going to remain the Problem?

Genesis-Bereshith: In the Beginning

26And Elohim said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the heavens, and over the livestock, and over all the earth and over all the creeping creatures that creep on the earth.”

27And Elohim created the man in His image, in the image of Elohim He created him – male and female He created them.

28And Elohim blessed them, and Elohim said to them, “Bear fruit and increase, and fill the earth and subdue it, and rule over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the heavens, and over all creatures moving on the earth.”

29And Elohim said, “See, I have given you every plant that yields seed which is on the face of all the earth, and every tree whose fruit yields seed, to you it is for food.

30“And to every beast of the earth, and to every bird of the heavens, and to every creeping creature on the earth, in which there is life, every green plant is for food.” And it came to be so. 31And Elohim saw all that He had made, and see, it was very good

Tzelem Elokim=Humankind as Image of YHWH/God

1: Has Intelligence

2: Has Freewill

3: Has component of Spiritual Being-A Soul

4: HaShem/YHWH Rules the Universe and Spirit World, Humans have dominion over the Lower World.

5: Has the faculty of Judgement

6: Has an inherent Holiness and Dignity

As created in the image of God, humans are endowed with "three intrinsic dignities": infinite value, equality, and uniqueness.

The first means that human life cannot be weighed, measured, or compared in terms of, that is, subordinated to, any other value. In the Kantian Parlance humans are always a goal or end in themselves and never a means to something else.

The second term implies that no person or group is privileged over another. In fact, Idolatry results when a person or group absolutizes itself or its message.

The third idea reinforces the dignity of every human by insisting that each person is irreplaceable and has a special role to play in the redemption of the world.

The Jewish religion is founded on the divine assurance and human belief that the world will be perfected." Judaism engages with and seeks to overcome these realities of history through its notion of covenant. The covenant is that dynamic which God inaugurated in history, that partnership between God and the Jewish people, to achieve the dignities for which all humans were created. Jews are those teachers, models, and co-workers-having both a divine and human partners - whom God designated to help all persons and even nature achieve redemption. For Greenberg, the messianic dream of perfection will not be realized by divine fiat, but by "improving this world, one step at a time."

These understandings of God, humans, and the world are expressed through the Torah and lived-out by the Jewish people through the Holy days and the Halakhah. In this view, Torah is that divine teaching which stands as "the constitution of the ongoing relationship of God and the Jewish people."

Rabbi Greenberg

This expanded view/articulation of higher values help us to search for YHWHs presence in the secular Realms of Life, some peeps call this: 'Holy Secularism'.

The Covenant is essentially a Divine, Loving, Pedagogic process. As Humans become more competent, YHWH invites them to take up a more active role in the Task of Tikkun Olam/World to Come, as Co-Creators.

The lay people of YHWH/God play a more influential role in discerning Yahwehs purpose and in carrying out His Divine Mandates.

Later, ensuing Historical events reshape understandings of earlier Teachings.

Summarized

We=ALL Living things-creatures-sustained and Nurtured by Yahweh-will fill the World with Life.

* We will reshape the Historical Reality, the Flesh & Blood world we inhabit, to sustain that Life at the highest possible level.

* Life will multiply and triumph Quantitatively over all its enemies; including Entropy, Death, and Disorder.

* Life will equally triumph Qualitatively.

* All of Lifes’ capacities/potentials will be developed fully and realized.

* When Life blossoms to its fullest capacity that treats all Life, especially Human Life-the most developed form-and sustains it with the highest and fullest respect that it deserves, then Life will be in harmony with existence and deeply related to Yahweh, its Source and Sustainer(Natural Laws)

* This is the Jews Story, and by default; the Christians/Xns.

* Telling the Story of Creation is the Jews 'Witness'. The present evidentiary Facts contradict the Narrative fairly substantialy.

* Yet, This Story of Creation is shared by Jews and Christians

* This Story leads Humans to see existence as best they can, from a Cosmic Perspective-Sub Specie Aeternitatis.

* From that Vantage Point there are Three Grand Movements in the unfolding Pattern of the Cosmos

1: The World is moving from Chaos to Order. From the Big Bang, with no Laws of Nature to the regularity of the Life sustaining Laws of Nature.

2: The World is moving from Non-Life to Life. From a State in which no life existed to the emergence of Life. From one cell, untold replications, life has grown Quantitatively, and developed Qualitatively. It has luxuriated and spread into a vast range of forms over and through a variety of sustaining conditions/environments.

* The declaration that Life is growing, moving from non-life to life is counter-intuitive.
Death & Entropy refute that contention.

The 'Key' is YHWH/God-The Hidden, Infinite Source of Life with limitless Goodness, Love and Power that sustains Life and Nurtures every possible Form of Life into Being.

* YHWH, the Divine Source evokes the Third Grand Movement of the Cosmos

3: Life is growing ever more to resemble its Ground: YHWH

Life moves from being less to becoming more and more like Yahweh. The highest form of Life, the Human Being, represents the High Point reached thus far.

In Human Form, life so resembles its Maker that it is called; Biblically; 'The Image of God'

* This emergence of "The Image of God" is the Turning Point in Cosmic History according to Jews & Christians.

Up to that point Life has been sworn to 'Be Fruitful & Multiply' (maximizing reproductive success) through a built-in control Programme-A 'Selfish Gene'- that drives the process.

* The 'Image of God' Consciousness is so much like YHWHs that Humans are able to 'grasp' this overall pattern of which we, ourselves are part, and to join voluntarily in its realization.

* Similarly, the Human 'Image of YHWH/God has a capacity to Love ALL their fellow creatures and every aspect of the Universe, as well as the Maker of it all and the Beauty of the Plan.

* Once Humans understand and embrace this understanding, they will lovingly identify with and willingly participate in the process of Perfection.

* YHWH has invited us, as Humans, The 'Image of God', to enter into a Covenantal Partnership, committed to Love, to join fully in perfecting the Universe.

Tikkun Olam

* The People of Israel joyfully acknowledge that YHWHs first Covenant, the Noahide Covenant, never superseded, is made with ALL Humanity, not exclusively with Jews and/or Christians alone.

* It is made with ALL Sentient Beings.

* ALL Beings are called to recognize and participate in Natures Patterns.

* To accept Limits.

* To Direct their choices and actions in favour of Life.

* To join in working for Order against Chaos.

* We are ALL CHOSEN to become part of the movement from Non-Life to Life.

* We are commanded to increase Life and make it grow ever more like its Maker.

* The purpose of the Religious way of life is to create the nurturing ambience of memory and experience, of relationships and actions that sustain Human growth and turns it towards Yahweh.

* Being in the 'Image of God/YHWH brings with it more God like capacities. It bestows intrinsic Dignity, a climatic extension of that respect to which all of life is entitled.

* The People of Israel hold these Truths to be self-evident: That ALL Humans are created in 'The Image of YHWH/God; and endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable Rights, among which are:

* Infinite Value

* Equality

* Uniqueness.

These are Birthrights of every Son & Daughter of Yahweh

The Sinai Event was the ultimate Social Engineering event.

The Torah is the first, and oldest Religious Book written in an Alephbet/ Alphabet........this alters the hegemony of the Brain to being left hemispherical centric=Abstract, linear and sequential. the ground for Theoretical Science....

Rabbi Greenberg

rodin Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:41 am

Gay NAZI flag?

I bet that was added to my quote by a raving Ashkenazi sodomite.

Dear boy, those of us who gauge the direction of the wind know 'NAZI' is product placement

MoMo Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:44 am

Here are Historical facts rodin, the Jews and the Old Testament/Torah/New Testament have already impacted Human Civilization in the most positive ways imaginable. These are proven facts.

WORLD PERFECT: The Jewish Impact on Civilization

http://www.aish.com/ci/s/48899267.html

Where did the values and principles of the modern world come from?

by Rabbi Ken Spiro
An excerpt from Rabbi Ken Spiro's recently published book, "World Perfect."

While developing an idea for a lecture program, I conducted a series of surveys over a period of two years, asking people to list the fundamental values and principles which they felt we needed to uphold in order to make our world as perfect as is humanly possible. In total, some 1,500 individuals were questioned. Overwhelmingly, my respondents -- predominantly Westerners, from the United States, Canada, South America, England, France, Germany, Austria, Switzerland, the Netherlands, Spain, Portugal, Italy, etc -- came up with remarkably similar answers, which could be grouped into these six categories:

1.Respect for Human Life. In a perfect world, all people would be guaranteed certain basic human rights, paramount among which must be the right to life. They should be able to live that life without constant fear of its loss and with certain basic dignity.
2.Peace and Harmony. On all levels -- whether communal or global -- people and nations should co-exist in peace and harmony with respect for each other.
3.Justice and Equality. All people, regardless of race, sex, or social status should be treated equally and fairly in the eyes of the law.
4.Education. Everyone should receive a basic education that would guarantee functional literacy within society.
5.Family. A strong, stable family structure needs to exist to serve as the moral foundation for society and as the most important institution for socializing/educating children.
6.Social Responsibility. On an individual, community, national and global level, people must take responsibility for the world. This should include an organized social network to address basic concerns such as disease, poverty, famine, crime, drug-related problems, as well as environmental and animal protection issues.

The respondents to my survey came from all walks of life, yet regardless of their backgrounds, they were in agreement. Indeed, they, and I venture to say most human beings the world over, deeply believe that a perfect world must include these universal values.

The question is: Why?

Are these six basic ideas intrinsic to human nature? Have people always felt this way? And if not, where did we get these values? What is the source of this utopian world vision?

My search for answers to these questions has produced this book. Where did the values and principles of the modern world come from? The answer I found will surprise, perhaps even shock, the reader.

As the respondents to my survey were predominantly residents of democratic countries, they naturally assumed that the values they hold dear have originated -- as did democracy -- with the Greeks and, to a lesser extent, with disseminators of Hellenistic, i.e. Greek ideas, the Romans.

Indeed, this issue is subject to much debate in academic circles these days. Traditionalists continue to insist that the values of ancient Greece and Rome underlie all our learning, philosophy, art, and ethics, while their opponents accuse them that their idealization of Greco-Roman standards of virtue, wisdom, and beauty is sentimental if not downright unreal.

Reporting on this bitter controversy, the New York Times (March 7, 1998) asked in a headline:

"THE ANCIENTS WERE: A) BELLICOSE ELITISTS OR B) THE SOURCE OF WESTERN VALUES?"

It would be pointless to negate that Greece and Rome, besides being the most advanced civilizations of antiquity, have also been the most influential of civilizations on Western Europe and by extension, the Americas. Without a doubt, much of our ideas about art, beauty, philosophy, government, and modern empirical science do come from classical Greek thought. Western law, government, administration, and engineering were also powerfully shaped by Rome. Indeed, we do overwhelmingly get the lion's share of our culture from these civilizations.

But can the same be said about our values, ethics, and principles?

Let me hasten to say that this is not a trick question; I am not hinting here at some far-fetched notion that we really got our values from the Far East. Although, with the recent interest in Eastern philosophies a few voices have been raised advocating this view, the undisputed historical fact is that only within the last few hundred years did the West have any significant interaction with the East.

So the question remains: How did we come to order our moral values in this particular way?

To answer this question we shall begin our examination by taking a look just how those civilizations -- which, without a doubt, shaped our political and social systems -- related to the values we hold dear today.

A SOCIETY WITHOUT MERCY

As we begin to trace the history of the values of our world, we shall, first of all, take a look at how the ancients -- who bequeathed to us so many of our ideas -- regarded the values we cherish today. Did they consider them essential to the making of an ideal world? Or was their worldview considerably different than ours?

Of all the principles we might list, the basic right to life seems certainly the most fundamental. We all want to live without fear of being arbitrarily deprived of life. We all want to live with a certain minimal amount of human dignity. We all want certain protection in the law against oppression by tyrants who might consider certain segments of society expendable simply because they are too weak or too poor to protect themselves.

As obvious and important as this concept seems to us today, it was not so obvious or important in the world of antiquity.

To begin with, Greeks and Romans -- as well as virtually every ancient culture we know of -- practiced infanticide.

By infanticide, I mean the killing of newborn children as a way of population control, sex selection (generally, boys were desirable, girls undesirable), and as a way of ridding society of potentially burdensome or deformed members.

A baby that appeared weak or sickly at birth, or had even a minor birth defect such a cleft pallet, hair lip, or cleft foot, or was in some other way imperfect was killed. This was not done by some Nazi-like baby removal squad. This was done by an immediate member of the family, usually the mother or father, and usually within three days after birth.

The method of "disposal" varied, but generally we know that, in antiquity, babies were taken out to the forest and left to die of exposure, dropped down wells to drown, or thrown into sewers or onto manure piles.

The horror of a parent being capable of killing his or her child is shocking enough. But that this parent should have so little regard for the child, as to unmercifully dump it where it might die slowly and painfully, or be picked up by someone to be reared into slavery or prostitution (as sometimes happened), suggests a level of cruelty beyond our modern imagination. Lloyd DeMause in his essay "The Evolution of Childhood" (pp. 25-26) reports:

"Infanticide during antiquity has usually been played down despite literally hundreds of clear references by ancient writers that it was an accepted, everyday occurrence. Children were thrown into rivers, flung into dung-heaps and cess trenches, 'potted' in jars to starve to death, and exposed in every hill and roadside, 'a prey for birds, food for wild beasts to rend.' (Euripides, Ion, 504)"
Gruesome evidence of this practice has been found in various archeological excavations. Most notably, in the Athenian Agora, a well was uncovered containing the remains of 175 babies thrown there to drown.

Lest we assume that was the practice of the poor and ignorant, one of the most influential thinkers in Western intellectual history -- none other than Aristotle -- argued in his Politics that killing children was essential to the functioning of society. He wrote:

"There must be a law that no imperfect or maimed child shall be brought up. And to avoid an excess in population, some children must be exposed. For a limit must be fixed to the population of the state." (Politics VII.16)

Note the tone of his statement. Aristotle isn't saying "I like killing babies," but he is making a cold, rational calculation: over-population is dangerous, and this is the most expedient way to keep it in check.

Four hundred years after Aristotle, the practice of killing babies was a firmly entrenched practice in the Roman Empire. This is an excerpt from a famous and much-quoted letter from a Roman citizen named Hilarion to his pregnant wife, Alis, dated June 17th, circa 1 CE:

"Know that I am still in Alexandria. And do not worry if they all come back and I remain in Alexandria. I ask and beg of you to take good care of our baby son, and as soon as I receive payment I will send it up to you. If you deliver a child [before I get home], if it is a boy, keep it, if a girl discard it..."

Hilarion, as we see, is very much concerned about his baby son, his heir. Indeed a typical Roman family might be made up of two or three sons -- to insure succession should one son die -- but seldom more than one daughter, who was considered a burdensome responsibility and was all too expendable.

Of course, it could be argued that on other fronts the Greeks and the Romans were capable of refined thinking and an elevated approach to behavior. Seneca, the famed Roman philosopher and writer, developed a lengthy treatise on the control and consequences of anger. In it, he draws the distinction between anger and wisdom, using the following example: "Children also, if weak and deformed, we drown, not through anger, but through the wisdom of preferring the sound to the useless." (Concerning Anger, I.XV)

EXPLOITATION OF THE INNOCENTS

The whole attitude toward the weak and helpless was totally skewed in ancient societies. Apart from thinking nothing of killing infants when they saw fit, the Romans engaged in the practice of mutilating unwanted children to make them at least "useful" for begging. (Incidentally, this horrifying practice is still seen today in India.)

Our morally-minded friend Seneca, who was so concerned with the issue of useful vs. useless, also came up with a tortured justification for this abomination:

"Look on the blind wandering about the streets leaning on their sticks, and those with crushed feet, and still again look on those with broken limbs. This one is without arms, that one has had his shoulder pulled down out of shape in order that his grotesqueries may excite laughter ... Let us go to the origin of those ills -- a laboratory for the manufacture of human wrecks -- a cavern filled with the limbs torn from living children ... What wrong has been done to the Republic? On the contrary, have not these children been done a service inasmuch as their parents had cast them out?"

Today, we would view the killing of newborn babies because they were unwanted or mutilating of tiny infants for profit as probably the most heinous acts a person could commit. What is the weakest, most defenseless, most innocent member of society? A little child. Therefore, we believe that a child, a baby, deserves the protection of society even more than an adult. But in Greek and Roman thinking, rather than being accorded the most protection, children were given the least; this happened simply because, as totally powerless, they were the easiest people to trample on or get rid of.

Points out Harvard Professor and former President of the American Historical Association, William L. Langer (in his foreword to The History of Childhood):

"Children, being physically unable to resist aggression, were the victims of forces over which they had no control, and they were abused in many imaginable and some almost unimaginable ways..."

So we see how very different the attitude of antiquity was to ours. The most basic right -- to life (never mind, to life with dignity) -- was by no means guaranteed.

HORROR SHOW

Surely, there can't be a better example of a total disregard for the value of human life than killing people for entertainment. And here the Romans take first prize. No civilization before or since was so bloodthirsty in this regard. Throughout the empire, more than 200 stadiums were specifically erected for the exhibition of this particular "sport," which required that people and animals be housed and displayed in such a way that they couldn't escape before being murdered in front of a cheering and jeering audience.

The practice was extremely popular, and Emperor Augustus in his Acts brags that during his reign (29 BC to 14 CE) he staged games where 10,000 men fought and 3,500 wild beasts were slain. While savage fights to the death between gladiators -- who were usually slaves trained for the purpose -- were the highlight, to keep up the novelty of death, Nero and Domitian sent in even women, children, blind people and dwarfs to fight each other. Anything went just so the crowds were happy.

This form of entertainment reached its pinnacle with the inauguration, in the year 80 CE of the Coliseum, the ruins of which are today a big tourist attraction in Rome.

The Romans were justly proud of the engineering feat that the construction of the Coliseum represented. The giant 600-by-500-foot arena, built by Vespasian and completed by Titus, seated 50,000 people. It had a removable roof and a floor that could be raised or lowered, depending on what the day's atmosphere demanded. Sometimes the Coliseum was transformed into a desert or into a jungle, and it could also be filled with water and turned into a lake so boats could sail in it.

Why was this incredible place built? To feature death as an elaborate form of amusement for the masses.

On a typical day when the Coliseum was playing to a full house, the place was crowded with men, women and children -- yes, the Romans thought nothing wrong with exposing children to this kind of grotesquerie. Admission was free, and a pillow for your seat, meat and wine were provided, also for free. The opening act to start off the morning was an exhibition of wild animals. The Romans went all over the empire to find wild, exotic beasts to astonish the crowds. Next, the arena was lowered to feature combat between them -- Romans cheered as lions tore apart tigers, tigers went up against bears, leopards against wolves. It goes without saying that the Romans had never heard of animal rights.

Then came the bullfights, except that the toreadors, being slaves or convicts, had been given no chance to practice, so the bull usually gored them to death. The crowd roared. This is what they came to see.

You'd think that would be enough carnage for anyone. That was only the warm-up act. Next came feeding people to the animals. Keep in mind that Rome was a very law-and-order-minded society and everything had to be done legally -- you couldn't just throw anyone to the lions, only people convicted of a capitol offense. But if they didn't have enough victims for a good day's fun, the Romans would conveniently condemn even minor criminals to death and replenish the supply. (Christianity, being a capital offense in Rome ever since the great fire of 64 CE, for which its adherents were blamed, provided a steady supply of victims.)

During intermissions, giant fountains sprayed perfume in the air to reduce the stench of death. Entertainment did not stop, however. In between the spectacular killings were held run-of-the-mill executions by burning, beheading, and flaying (that is, skinning people alive).

The main event was saved for the afternoon, and this was what the crowd was really waiting for -- gladiatorial combat. The gladiators fought to the death, although the lives of particularly brave fighters could be spared by the emperor or the vote of the crowd.

In the year 107 CE, during a four-month celebration of his conquest of Dacia, Trajan -- who was perhaps trying to match Augustus' record -- held a major tournament in which 10,000 gladiators and 3,000 animals fought. This meant that whoever sat through that spectacle watched at least 5,000 people die. Trajan was so fond of this kind of massacre -- and he had a large supply of Dacian prisoners of war for the purpose -- that he apparently sent 23,000 people to their slaughter between 106 and 118 CE.

It was all horrible and perverse, and if you thought it couldn't get worse, consider that Commodus (emperor from 180 to 192 CE) organized fights between crippled people and finished them off himself.

Of the Roman philosophers and great thinkers, only Seneca saw anything wrong with death as entertainment ... Other Roman greats were not as soft as Seneca. Cicero, for example, thought that gladiatorial contests promoted courage and endurance, although he was of the opinion that they were not all that entertaining. Juvenal, who criticized everything, loved the games. And Pliny found that watching people be massacred toughened the audience and therefore had educational value.

That about sums up the ancient world attitude toward the value of life. The key thing to keep in mind, however, is that the Greeks or Romans did think that law and order were essential to the efficient functioning of society, and laws under both empires were many and strictly enforced. But the idea that along with your status as a human being came the right to life (forget about life with dignity) was not a given by any means.

AGAINST THE GRAIN: THE JEWISH VIEW

"I will insist that the Hebrews have done more to civilize men than any other nation ... fate had ordained the Jews to be the most essential instrument for civilizing the nations." (John Adams, 2nd president of the United States)

"Certainly, the world without the Jews would have been a radically different place. Humanity might have eventually stumbled upon all the Jewish insights. But we cannot be sure. All the great conceptual discoveries of the human intellect seem obvious and inescapable once they had been revealed, but it requires a special genius to formulate them for the first time. The Jews had this gift. To them we owe the idea of equality before the law, both divine and human; of the sanctity of life and the dignity of human person; of the individual conscience and so a personal redemption; of collective conscience and so of social responsibility; of peace as an abstract ideal and love as the foundation of justice, and many other items which constitute the basic moral furniture of the human mind. Without Jews it might have been a much emptier place." (Paul Johnson, Christian historian, author of A History of the Jews and A History of Christianity)

Could that be true?

Is it really possible that our moral values do not originate in one of the great civilizations but have been bequeathed to us by a small, otherwise insignificant nation inhabiting a tiny piece of real estate in the Middle East?

I venture to say that the ancient Hebrews (who later came to be known as the Israelites and still later as the Jews) would have disagreed with the statements of Adams and of Johnson above. They would have insisted that they had nothing personally to do with inventing the values which ran against the grain of the world around them, and indeed were totally unknown to other peoples. They would have insisted that these values came from God, and they were merely the people chosen to disseminate them worldwide.

This was the story they told from the time they appeared on the world scene around 1300 BCE, hundreds of years before the ascent of the Greek civilization. Back then, they were still a newly emerging nation that functioned more like a large extended family, all family members tracing their ancestry to a man named Abraham who had lived somewhere around 1,800 BCE. They were a strange people with an even stranger religion:

•They believed in only one God -- all-powerful, infinite, and invisible -- who had created everything known to man, a notion totally foreign to every ancient people that preceded them.
•They claimed that all of them -- some 600,000 men and untold number of women and children -- had miraculously escaped from slavery in Egypt, then the mightiest empire on earth, through the miraculous intervention of their God.
•They claimed that after their great escape, they reached a mountain in the wilderness, Mt. Sinai, where they all had an encounter with God; during that encounter, and through the person of their leader Moses, they supposedly received a code of behavior -- compiled in a holy book known as the "Torah" -- which they scrupulously followed.
A STRANGE PEOPLE
It was a story bound to raise more than a few eyebrows in the ancient world. Of course, the ancient people believed all sorts of wild things about divine relationships with human beings, so the Jews' story was not in itself all that outlandish. Nor was a society governed by laws so strange, after all, previous law codes, the Code of Hammurabi being the most famous, set forth rules governing property rights and the like. What the ancient world couldn't fathom was this particular code. Indeed, it was a code that to the ancient mind seemed irrational.

"The Jews are distinguished from the rest of mankind in practically every detail of life," wrote Roman philosopher Deo Cassius, expressing his disapproval. "In particular ... they do not honor any of the usual gods, but show extreme reverence to only one God."

Part of that "extreme" reverence translated into following that God's law, a law which could not be altered as was convenient. It was an absolute, God-given standard, and by that fact alone it stood apart from any law of any other society.

But there was more about the Jews that was strange, besides their God and their law. The Torah -- or the Biblos as the Greeks would call it -- was like no holy book of any people before or since, in yet another way. It made the Jews look bad. In it, they are shown as shirkers and complainers, often sinning against their own God and His law. And yet they insisted that they needed to carry around with them the history of their failures as well as their successes in order never to lose sight of their mission to elevate humanity.

We shall now take a look at how the ancient Jews related to the basic human right to life and see how close they came to our standard...

http://kenspiro.com/worldperfect.php

What do you think about that rodin? thumbs up

MoMo Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:47 am

here are Facts that refute many other of rodins deluded, unsupported 'beliefs'.

http://www.angelfire.com/mt/talmud/

Talmud: The Real Truth About The Talmud

Talmud: Statement of Purpose
There are many lies circulating the internet about the Jewish Talmud. These allegations are supported by "direct quotations" from the Talmud that are frequently wrong or taken out of context. However, most people lack the scholarly background to verify these claims. Most people have no way of knowing that these accusation are false and malicious. What we are attempting is to demonstrate in detail how these accusations are both wrong and intentionally misleading. We are trying to show to the world the real truth about the Talmud.

Written by Gil Student

"Our philosophy asserts that every human being is created in the image of the Lord and the primacy of integrity and honesty in all dealings without exception. I strongly repudiate any assertions in the name of Judaism that do not represent and reflect this philosophy."

- Rabbi Malkiel Kotler, dean of the world-renowned Lakewood Yeshiva, Dec. 16, 2003

Anti-Talmud accusations have a long history dating back to the 13th century when the associates of the Inquisition attempted to defame Jews and their religion [see Yitzchak Baer, A History of Jews in Christian Spain, vol. I pp. 150-185]. The early material compiled by hateful preachers like Raymond Martini and Nicholas Donin remain the basis of all subsequent accusations against the Talmud. Some are true, most are false and based on quotations taken out of context, and some are total fabrications [see Baer, ch. 4 f. 54, 82 that it has been proven that Raymond Martini forged quotations]. On the internet today we can find many of these old accusations being rehashed and this site is an attempt to correct the mistakes and put the true quotes into their proper perspective.

The accusations against the Talmud can be divided into four categories [see Hyam Maccoby, Judaism on Trial, pp. 23-38].

1] The Talmud considers itself holier than the Bible
2] The Talmud contains passages that are blasphemous against Jesus and Mary

The first two accusations are essentially frivolous. What business is it of Christians if the Jewish Talmud is considered holier than the Bible (which it isn't)? And if Jews do not take the account of the Christian NT to be totally historically accurate, so what? To fundamentalist Christians, EVERY other religion is considered blasphemous. Why should the Talmud be judged within the Christian religious framework? Of course, any Jewish book is blasphemous within that framework because Judaism does not accept Jesus as the messiah. The very accusation that the Jewish Talmud is blasphemous to Christianity is redundant.

3] The Talmud has ridiculous and immoral statements

The third accusation is one that Jews have to work out for themselves. Should a Jew believe in a book that makes foolish and obscene comments? That a Jew does should not be relevant to gentiles. In fact, the allegedly foolish and immoral statements in the Talmud are sometimes non-existent but usually allegorical. The Talmud and associated literature developed an entire genre of parables and allegorical sayings that, when understood, shed light on the mysteries of life. However, when inadequately translated and ripped from their context they seem silly.

Dov Zlotnick, Introduction to Saul Lieberman's Greek in Jewish Palestine (1994), p. xx

Rabbinic texts that seem bizarre at first blush can become quite ordinary when properly understood. I remember Lieberman once being called by a popular national publication regarding a passage from the Talmud. To the caller, who was researching an article, the passage seemed silly. Its subject was the difference between a roll or a bundle of documents, and how each note of indebtedness was to be placed in relation to the other. After the Professor finished explaining the passage, the caller responded with surprise, "Why, this is reasonable!" "Of course," the Professor responded.

"Well, in that case," the caller replied, "I cannot use it."

4] The Talmud has laws that are racist and anti-gentile

The fourth accusation is the one on which I will be focussing. Because today's Orthodox Jews still lead their lives based on the laws contained in the Talmud, it is incumbent upon Jews to understand and explain that their religious laws are not racist or derogatory to gentiles. Jewish law, as contained in the Talmud, treats gentiles with the proper respect due to a person created in the image of G-d. Their property and lives are honored and any (mis)quotes from the Talmud indicating otherwise need to be seen in their original language and context.

I will be showing the ENTIRE passages in both their original Hebrew or Aramaic and in translation. I will also be providing a fuller context by bringing other quotations on the topics from other parts of the Talmud. After seeing all of the quotations, a proper judgement can be rendered. I will also be showing how Jewish commentators and legalists have understood these passages throughout history.

Even if a reader would believe that these talmudic quotations are racist, if Jews have always understood them differently then Jews cannot be considered racist. Even if someone can twist the words of the Talmud to be hateful, if Jews have always understood the Talmud in a non-hateful way then the argument is meaningless. The real exercise is to find the (allegedly racist) talmudic influence on Jews and Judaism and by perusing through the post-talmudic literature we can clearly find that this talmudic influence was not racist.

Is the Talmud racist or anti-gentile? No. But neither is it a universalist manifesto. It is a religious document written by those of the Jewish religion for others of the same faith. It favors Judaism over other religions and sets down rules on how to live in both an all-Jewish society and a mixed society. It legislates how to create vibrant Jewish communities while still maintaining respect for the gentile society. Universalists would have everyone be treated exactly equally and live in non-denominational communities. However, the Talmud, which is concerned for the survival of the Jewish religion, must weigh both the respect for humanity and the need for Jewish survival throughout thousands of years of minority-status.

What we will demonstrate is that the consideration for the Jewish community NEVER relegates those outside of this community to an inhuman status. Gentiles are ALWAYS respected and their rights are secured.

The anti-talmudic lies are exactly that - lies. The wisdom of the Talmud has sustained Judaism for thousands of years and perhaps its very success is what has engendered so much jealous hatred.

MoMo Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:52 am

The many lies of rodin concerning the 'alledged Protocolz of the Elderz of Zion'. David Icke was sucked into this bullshit also and has never renounced or retracted his beliefs in this fraudulent document.

http://www.vbm-torah.org/

http://www.vbm-torah.org/jewphi.htm

53b: A Covenant of Fate, Part 2
Anti-Semitism and Its Causes: The Psychological Background

Anti-semitism is a multi-faceted phenomenon, which lends itself to various analyses. I would like to demonstrate that the various dimensions of analysis do not contradict one another. In fact, their juxtaposition creates a complete picture. Here we will discuss the first level, the psychological dimension. To explain it, I will use a simple allegory. Psychologists often employ the Rorschach Test in their analysis of patients. The test uses a well-known technique known as the projective technique. The patient is asked to look at a series of pictures and explain what he sees. These pictures have no intrinsic meaning. In fact, they are simply ink blots on paper that created symmetrical designs when the paper was folded in two. As previously mentioned, the pictures do not represent anything, yet people look at them and explain them. The explanations do not exist in the pictures; they exist in the person's mind. This is an opening, through which the psychologists try to enter the inner world of the person, who "projects" what is inside himself onto the pictures.

This mechanism, according to many psychologists, can shed light on the phenomenon of anti-Semitism. The anti- Semite sees in the Jews negative qualities that threaten and endanger him. These characteristics don't exist in the "picture"; they only exist in the mind of the beholder. They are the projections of the anti-Semite, who uses the Jew as a blot of his own making, and upon which he projects the black sides of his inner world. This, in very general terms of course, refers to the psychological background of anti-Semitism. The fact that the Jew is a minority, a foreigner who is relatively easily identified, was a psychological cause that contributed to the choice of the Jew as the screen upon which the anti-Semites threw their fears and hatred. This is actually the explanation for a number of noticeable characteristics of anti-Semitism. We find many types and forms of attacks on Jews. In one place the Jew is described as having one trait, and in another place he is accused of the opposite characteristic. This is true regarding both his personal traits and his social and political traits. Thus, for example, the Jew is portrayed as the capitalist trying to take over the world, and on the other hand as the revolutionary, who is attempting to weaken the power of wealth and utterly abolish personal ownership. The fact that we are faced with a psychological phenomenon means that we must not search for logic here. All anti-Semites project their various and contradictory fears upon the Jew...........If anti-Semitism were only an individual psychological phenomenon, it would be similar to other forms of discrimination and hostility; however, in the modern world anti-Semitism takes on a different hue. Various groups have used it for political purposes. We can trace clear attempts to use psychological hostility – which, it seems, has deep religious roots – to forward political aims. Thus, modern anti-Semitism was born, and acquired a more and more tragic and satanic form. The widespread use of this technique began in Czarist Russia, in the struggle to smother those revolutionary attempts that finally toppled the Czarist rule. Through the Czarist secret police, the rulers attempted to identify revolutionary action with the activities of the Jews. The rulers of Czarist Russia fought against certain phenomena, and in this fight they created a kind of equation, which was supposed to prove their claims. The Czarist secret police created one of the documents that became an anti-Semitic classic, "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion." This book reveals the so-called secret plan weaved by the leaders of the Jews, to take over the entire world. "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion" became a holy book among the anti-Semites.

"The Protocols of the Elders of Zion" was simply a rewriting of a French book that attributed ambitions to take over the world to Napoleon. This booklet is called "a dialogue in hell between Machiavelli and Montasque," or "Politics of the Nineteenth Century." These accusations were not at all directed towards the Jews and Judaism. However, the dialogue was adopted and transformed into the protocols of an imaginary group whose members were the world leaders of Judaism, attempting to take over the politics of various European countries.

Even the Czar himself, Nikolai the Second, although far from bearing the Jews any fond feelings, saw that the book was a fake and opposed its publication. Despite this, the first Russian edition appeared in 1905. A number of years later, other editions began to appear. Some of the editions were altered and corrected in order to make it possible to accuse the Jews of various catastrophes that took place between one edition and another. At various opportunities, it became the topic of public court cases, in which the book was proved to be a forgery. However, this of course did not check the book's growing popularity, particularly in the wake of the Nazi influence. The book influenced various writers, who were mistakenly taken in and convinced of its authenticity. Thus, for example, Henry Ford was inspired by "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion" to write "The International Jew," in which he continues these accusations. Various other books were written in its wake until recent years.

This is an example of a lie and forgery that the power of truth could not effectually surmount. This abominable book became a justification of Nazism and the genocide that followed in its wake. This is an example of the phenomena that we must deal with. Forgeries spread throughout the world, and people are convinced.
...

MoMo Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:56 am

http://ddickerson.igc.org/protocols.html

Thousands, perhaps even tens of thousands, of Jews
have died because of this infamous forgery.

Rabbi Joseph Teluskin
Jewish Literacy

London (1978)

•The Protocols of the Elders of Zion (PDF): Although the Protocols is a proven, antisemitic hoax, I am providing a PDF version for educational purposes only. This PDF document (1.1 MB) is based upon Victor E. Marsden's translation of Sergei Nilus's Russian edition. (Marsden's translation was published originally by The Britons Publishing Society, London, in 1921, but was reissued under other titles.) Although I have grave misgivings about providing this document, I refuse to link to the antisemitic sites that host copies of it. In addition, the PDF file contains, on each page, an embedded, permanent warning stating that the document is a hoax and a forgery — in order to prevent any abusive distribution and use of this disturbing lie. The warnings in the PDF file state, "This document is a proven antisemitic forgery and hoax. Any abuse of this document is strictly forbidden." In summary, this PDF document contains Dr. Daniel Keren's commentary on the Protocols; the Los Angeles Times article about the Russian court's ruling that the Protocols is an antisemitic forgery; and, the Protocols.
•The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion — Plagiarism at Its Best: The content of this Web page was created in November 2003 by José De La Cruz at the University of California at Santa Barbara in an introductory lecture course on the Holocaust. The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion "helped to spread the disease of antisemitism throughout the world. The Protocols is a document that purports to represent the ideas of a secret society of Jewish elders and was published by Sergei Nilus in Russia in 1905. These ideas are the blueprint for conquering the world. History can show the impact that this document has had on the human race. Adolf Hitler was influenced by the Protocols, which therefore helps explain why Hitler believed that Jews were planning to conquer the world. Consequently, Hitler was responsible for the deaths of millions of Jews throughout Europe.... It has been proven that the Protocols is a mere forgery of a prior document and holds no concrete evidence of an original author. In sum, the Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion is false documentation that has no credibility, and its sole purpose is to spread antisemitism throughout the world."

What part of this don't you understand rodin? For every lie you push I have 100 truths, everything I Post I can multiply 100 times with credentialed proven historical facts.....................more lies of rodin/eternal spirit etc.......Hitler used the Protocols as a manual
in his war to exterminate the Jews.

Nora Levin
The Holocaust: The Destruction
of European Jewry

....

MoMo Mon Sep 12, 2011 12:03 pm

more tools of deception used by Neo Nazis and rodin.....

Twenty Five Lies of Benjamin Freedman

http://bluwiki.com/go/The_Benjamin_Freedman_Speech

Daryl Bradford Smith makes a big deal out of this speech on his Web site. Here are twenty-five lies told by Freedman -- and repeated by Daryl Bradford Smith:

(1) "In other words, Christian boys are going to be yanked out of their homes, away from their families, and sent abroad to fight in Palestine against the Christian and Moslem Arabs who merely want to return to their homes."

In the forty-six years since this speech was delivered, not one U.S. soldier has fought in Israel or the Palestinian territories........................

The Other Benjamin Freedman Speech
From BluWiki
Seventeen More Lies of Benjamin Freedman

http://bluwiki.com/go/The_Other_Benjamin_Freedman_Speech

Exposing False Zionist Quotes (Quote Busters)

http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_context=7&x_issue=57&x_article=766

Did Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon vow to burn Palestinian children and rape Arabic girls? Did former Israeli leader Menachem Begin refer to Palestinians as “two-legged beasts,” and did another Israeli leader declare that all Arabs must be killed unless they are willing to live as slaves?

No, but given the number of Web sites repeating these allegations, it is easy to see how this nonsense has gained credence. Indeed, the attribution of invidious statements to Israel’s leaders has become a popular stratagem among Israel’s enemies. Many are fabricated, taken out of context or otherwise manipulated to present a distorted, negative view of Zionist intentions and actions. Propagated on the internet, some of these misquotes eventually make their way into opinion columns in campus newspapers and even, on occasion, the mainstream press.

Take for example, the following quote (found on anti-Israel Web sites) alleged to have been said by Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon to the Israeli parliament in October 2001 and reported on Kol Yisrael radio:

Don't worry about American pressure on Israel, we, the Jewish people control America, and the Americans know it.

The statement also appears as "I control America."

As it turns out, it is a hoax. Sharon never made either statement. Nor did Kol Yisrael ever report that he did.

Exposing False Zionist Quotes II (Quote Busters II)

http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_context=7&x_issue=21&x_article=775

* MIFTAH (The Palestinian Initiative for the Promotion of Global Dialogue and Democracy), an organization under the helm of Hanan Ashrawi, aims to “increase global awareness and knowledge of Palestinian realities by providing reliable, accurate and comprehensive information, policy analysis, strategic briefings and position papers.” [emphasis added] To that stated end, the organization dispenses information on its Web site, among which are quotes attributed to Zionist leaders under the heading “Memorable Quotes.”

* Media Monitors describes itself as “a non-profit, non-bias [sic] and non-political platform which mainly helps to prevail the whole truth and generally facilitate answers to any disputed, controversial topic being broadcast, web cast, published, distributed or telecast in the world media.” It calls upon journalists, editors, writers, reporters, researchers, columnists, content providers, etc. to join the organziation “to counter information warfare and fabricated propaganda in the world media.” An article on its Web site entitled “Apartheid in the Holy Land: Racism in the Zionist State of Israel” is filled with racist quotes by Zionist leaders.

* British journalist Robert Fisk, known for his virulent anti-Israel sentiment, wrote a column for The Independent in April 2001 entitled: “When Journalists Refuse to Tell the Truth About Israel.” Suggesting that journalists fear being “slandered” as anti-Semites, he accuses them of covering up Israel’s supposed guilt thus “abetting terrible deeds in the Middle East.” Of the “truths” journalists are being censured for refusing to tell are several contemptuous quotes attributed to Israel’s leaders.

All of the above rally against those who hide the truth or fabricate propaganda, while puporting to reveal the hidden facts. Their hypocrisy is mind-boggling as they disseminate “truths” that are anything but that.

In Part I of our series on misquotes, we showed how the attribution of invidious statements to Israel’s leaders has become a popular stratagem among Israel’s enemies, with many quotes fabricated, taken out of context or otherwise manipulated to present a distorted, negative view of Zionist intentions and actions. Part II will examine some of the misquotes presented by self-proclaimed purveyors of truth.

FALSE ZIONIST QUOTES

http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_context=7&x_issue=57

Check the Neo NAZIS and rodins/eternal spirits claims with the actual historical facts. Bullshit cannot withstand pressure.

The Nizkor Project-- Dedicated to 12 million Holocaust victims who suffered and died
at the hands of Adolf Hitler and his Nazi regime

http://www.nizkor.org/

The Chomsky Hoax
http://www.paulbogdanor.com/chomskyhoax.html

Middle East News and Reference

http://www.mideastweb.org/

Zionism & Israel Information Center

http://www.zionism-israel.com/

Myths & Facts: A Guide to the Arab-Israeli ... - Jewish Virtual Library
Myths & Facts Online
Index of Myths

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/myths/

rodin Mon Sep 12, 2011 12:12 pm

I can tell you the Old Testament is a fake. There were bugger all ancient manuscripts til 1947 - and the Dead Sea Scrolls are a hoax. Why bother faking a real provenance?

http://forum.davidicke.com/showthread.php?t=77604

The Ten Commandments originate in Egypt not from 'Moses'

http://forum.davidicke.com/showthread.php?t=102716

That's why I think the Mysterious Force narrative has legs

http://forum.davidicke.com/showpost.php?p=1058637432&postcount=10

rodin Mon Sep 12, 2011 12:13 pm

Why did Churchill never mention the Holocaust in his war memoirs?

rodin Mon Sep 12, 2011 12:16 pm

el kabong wrote:more tools of deception used by Neo Nazis and rodin.....

Neo Nazis are Jewish dressing up, just like the 5 'Middle Eastern Men' on 911 lmao

http://www.thebirdman.org/Index/Others/Others-Doc-Jews/+Doc-Jews-IntimateRelationToNazis/AmazingStoryOfTheCommanderOfTheSkokieNazis.htm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRfhUezbKLw&feature=player_embedded

MoMo Mon Sep 12, 2011 12:28 pm

rodin wrote: Why did Churchill never mention the Holocaust in his war memoirs?

rodin, the holocaust/shoa is by far the most documented atrocity in recent/modern history. Even the truthful germans do not deny it. The Nation of Germany has made an official apology and has paid reparations.

Given the evidence ... why do people deny the Holocaust?
The cynical truth comes to us by way of an obscure extremist group, which boasts:
"The real purpose of holocaust revisionism is to make
National Socialism an acceptable political alternative again."

Churchill and the Holocaust: The Possible and Impossible

http://www.winstonchurchill.org/support/the-churchill-centre/publications/churchill-proceedings/596-churchill-and-the-holocaust-the-possible-and-impossible

FROM the moment that Hitler came to power, Churchill in his public speeches, and in his Parliamentary speeches, made it clear that the racial aspect of Nazism was a central concern. He always insisted on raising this issue, and pointing out the relevance to his listeners of the Nazi racial policies, and this he did again and again.

I also found in an article which he wrote in April 1933, some two months after Hitler came to power, an extraordinary forecast or foresight, the recognition, which I haven't seen elsewhere at the time: that it was not only the 500,000 Jews of Germany, but many other Jews, many millions of Jews elsewhere, who were now threatened. This is what he wrote:

"There is a danger of the odious conditions now ruling in Germany, being extended by conquest to Poland and another persecution and pogrom of Jews being begun in this new area."

Churchill saw the anti-Jewish policies of the Nazis as affecting every element, not only of German life, but of the relationship between Germany and the other powers. He spoke of them at a time when Jewish reaction was being debated strongly by Jews themselves: Should the Jews boycott? Should the Jews lobby? As you know from the American experience, the Jewish community was divided as to how it should, or if it should, represent its particular, desperate needs, or submerge its concerns into national concerns.

Churchill set out what he called "a perfectly legitimate use of Jewish influence throughout the world: to bring pressure, economic and financial, to bear upon the governments which persecute them." It is interesting, too, that he saw a direct parallel between the growing plight of Jewish refugees and British policy to Palestine, remarking in April 1937, "of the need not to close the doors against them."

In Palestine, some 320,000 Jews had availed themselves of Churchill's own legislation of 1922 to immigrate. Now, the British government was seeking means of going back on what was known as the Churchill White Paper for Palestine, and effectively giving veto power to the Arabs against any substantial further Jewish immigration. And so Churchill, in his discussions with Jewish leaders and with British leaders, stressed the need to maintain an open door in Palestine............- Churchill said:

I would like to speak about the persecution of Jews in Germany. It is a horrible thing that arace of people should be attempted to be blotted out of the society in which they had been born. If it were thought by this visit that we were making terms for ourselves at the expenses either of small nations or of large conceptions, which are dear not only to many nations but to millions of people in every land, a knell of despair would resound through many parts of Europe.

It is interesting to note, sad in a way, that Churchill's constant "harping" on the Jewish issue - as his contemporaries sometimes described his concern - was more and more held against him in the general argument about his lack of reliability, balance, judgement and statesmanship. Foolish historians today exaggerate his drinking, but at the time, what was disliked was his championing of what we now call human rights, and specifically the rights of Jews.
................................IN JUNE 1941 the Germans invaded Russia and the horrifying events which are so vividly portrayed in this Museum began. British Intelligence authorities were able to read many dozens of the top-secret radio circuits, messages being sent from Germany to the front, and from the front to Berlin. Of some 120 circuits, probably eighty or ninety were broken into and read. Among them, in the summer of 1941, were top secret messages sent by the German police forces in the East to Berlin. It is they which first give an idea, not of the full scale of the slaughter in the East, but a clear intimation that it is taking place - and taking place on a systematic scale.

Between 18 July and 30 August 1941, at least seven such top-secret signals were read by British Intelligence. They referred to four categories of victims: Jews, Jewish plunderers, Jewish Bolsheviks and Russian soldiers. They reported, if one adds them up, more than 50,000 executions in an area where we now know that many hundreds of thousands of killings were taking place. Churchill was shown these. In a speech in September he referred to the killings in the East as being unprecedented and barbaric..................The other exception was Churchill, who lost no opportunity at public gatherings to draw his audience's attention to this. I would just like to read one example, from October 1942:

The systematic cruelties to which the Jewish people, men, women and children, have been exposed under the Nazi regime are among the most terrible events of history. Free men and women denounce these vile crimes and when this world struggle ends with the enthronement of human rights, racial persecution will be ended.

Churchill's words served as a great rallying point for Jews in the West, and culminated in an event mentioned in the Museum itself: the public declaration of 17 December 1942 against Nazi crimes..........................Five prisoners escaped from Auschwitz in order to bring news to the West of what was happening to the Jews there. Four were Jews. One was a Polish Catholic medical student. The moment their information reached the West, the moment the "unknown destination" was revealed as Auschwitz, and the truth of the gas chambers there made clear, there was a tremendous and understandable outcry. (The first thing that has always struck me is: what would have happened if these escapees had made their way West in 1943 or even at the end of 1942?)

The impact of their report on the Jewish and non-Jewish world was dramatic, and traumatic. Immediately an exceptional flurry of activity began in an attempt to do something to save those Hungarian Jews who had been, or were about to be, deported. ............................Churchill had no doubt that a terrible crime had been committed. As he wrote to Anthony Eden on the day that the escapees' account of the truth about Auschwitz and the "unknown destination" reached him:

There is no doubt that this is probably the greatest and most horrible crime ever committed in the whole history of the world, and it has been done by scientific machinery by nominally civilised men in the name of a great State and one of the leading races of Europe. It is quite clear that all concerned in this crime who may fall into our hands, including the people who only obeyed orders by carrying out the butcheries, should be put to death after their association with the murders has been proved. Declarations should be made in public, so that everyone connected with it will be hunted down and put to death.

Copyright The Churchill Center Inc., All Rights Reserved.....

Read the truth and weep Neo NAZI rodin/Eternal Spirit........will carto and the IHR, David Irving et all are liars, test their Data, it cannot withstand pressure.

http://www.nizkor.org/

http://www.nizkor.org/qar-complete.cgi

The Pamphlet
The Institute for Historical Review, or IHR, publishes many small pamphlets designed to misinform people about the Holocaust. One of the most-persistent has been a pamphlet called "66 Questions And Answers About the Holocaust," or simply "66 Q&A."

This pamphlet neatly summarizes many of the most common arguments used by Holocaust-deniers. Refuting these 66 claims strikes directly at the core of Holocaust-denial.

Readers of the Usenet newsgroup alt.revisionism will notice claims and arguments below which may seem familiar. This is because this material, and its derivatives, have been presented and discussed on Usenet many times before. These web pages contain more in-depth replies than previous postings, however, and the links to other information put the technology of the web to good use.

The pamphlet itself has been put up on the world-wide web by at least two separate Holocaust-deniers: Greg Raven, head of the IHR, and Ernst Zündel, described by Canada's Security Intelligence Review Committee as "a Holocaust denier and prolific publisher of hate literature," and the sponsor and promoter of a "1991 neo-Nazi conference in Germany." Both the IHR's and Zündel's publishing houses distribute the Q&A in print form.

What follows is a point-by-point refutation of its half-truths and untruths. The full text of the original pamphlet is included, with the IHR's questions and answers reproduced unaltered, but if you would like to see their material for yourself, you may examine Greg Raven's copy on the IHR web site, or Ernst Zündel's copy on his web site.

Note that the wording of the questions and "answers" may vary slightly from what we've presented here. The pamphlet has undergone some revisions over the years, and it appears that both Raven's and Zündel's web sites are presenting what we call the "revised" version, as opposed to the "original."

Zündel's publishing house, Samisdat, has distributed an earlier version as recently as November 1995, which we will occasionally refer to as the "Samisdat" version for lack of a better name. We are currently only in possession of the first page of this, and it skips quite a few questions, so we don't know how much we're missing. We are also not sure exactly when it was written, but its answer to question 22 refers to a united Germany, which places it in the 1990s. Updates will come as we learn more, of course.

In any case, the various revisions that have been made have rarely made the pamphlet any more truthful. This is not surprising, because the aim of the pamphlet is not to educate but to mislead. Where the revisions are noteworthy, we will comment upon them.

If our treatment seems tedious, consider yourself lucky: in 1983, the IHR published 120 Questions and Answers About the Holocaust. We have obtained a copy, but for now resign ourselves to critiquing the much-abridged, extensively sanitized version. Remember as you're reading this that there were 54 other questions and answers that were not good enough to make the final cut!

Finally, for another good antidote to the "66 Q&A," we suggest two documents put out by the Simon Wiesenthal Center on their web site: their "Responses to Revisionist Arguments," and their "36 Q&A" (which are unrelated except for the similarity in format).

The Holocaust (HaShoah, in Hebrew) is the term that describes the murder of six million Jews in Europe during World War II that was orchestrated by the National Socialist ('Nazi') Party in Germany. The Holocaust Wing of the Jewish Virtual Library contains articles, original documents, a holocaust glossary, a bibliography, and much more, all covering The Holocaust.

What We Knew and When We Knew It

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/knewtoc.html

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/holo.html

thumbs up

MoMo Mon Sep 12, 2011 12:45 pm

rodin wrote:

Neo Nazis are Jewish dressing up, just like the 5 'Middle Eastern Men' on 911 http://www.thebirdman.org/Index/Others/Others-Doc-Jews/+Doc-Jews-IntimateRelationToNazis/AmazingStoryOfTheCommanderOfTheSkokieNazis.htm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRfhUezbKLw&feature=player_embedded

Bullshit!!, you, rodin/eternal spirit have all the same 'beliefs' as the classic NAZIS, every allegation that you make as a Fact about Jews turns out to be false. This is due to your choice of lousy sources, Willis Carto/IHR/David Irving/Judicaial Inc/Bible believer/IAMTHEWITNESS................all unsupported, except by fellow NAZIS.........and you rodin.are a cliche nazi..... .....

http://www.adl.org/learn/ext_us/carto.asp?xpicked=2&item=carto

Willis Carto has been one of the most influential American anti-Semitic propagandists of the past 50 years. Since emerging as a right-wing organizer in San Francisco in the early 1950s, he has been associated with nearly every significant far-right movement in the country, from neo-Nazism to militias, segregationism to Holocaust denial. Known for his reclusiveness, he has founded and overseen from behind the scenes an intricate network of bigotry whose outlets have included Liberty and Property, Western Destiny, the Noontide Press, American Mercury, National Youth Alliance, the Institute for Historical Review, the Populist Party and, most notably, Liberty Lobby. In 2001, both Carto and Liberty Lobby were bankrupted after Carto lost a long court battle with the Institute for Historical Review (which broke with him in 1993). His editorial staff at Liberty Lobby's now-defunct Spotlight, the most widely read publication on the fringe right, resumed publication under the title American Free Press in August 2001, however. And while Carto is in his 70s and financially constrained, his energy for purveying paranoia and hatred appears to be undiminished.

The Spotlight
Carto's chief aim was always to mobilize opinion against Jews. Liberty Lobby was his chief instrument to bridge right-wing constituencies -- hard-right or paramilitary libertarians, conspiratorial anticommunists, racists -- by inflaming their anti-government and nativist fears and identifying Jews as the country's chief threat. "Zionists," in the group's disingenuous rhetoric, and the "Zionist lobby," were the driving forces behind integration; Communism; the United Nations and internationalism; the moral decline accompanying liberalism; and, obviously, Israel. These sentiments were widely conveyed by Liberty Lobby's weekly tabloid, The Spotlight, which debuted in September 1975. Written and edited by the organization's staff (including, occasionally, Carto himself),7 the flagship publication reflected Carto's conspiracy theory of history, a nightmare vision in which hidden forces -- including elite policy groups like the Trilateral Commission and the Council on Foreign Relations -- manipulated governments and media around the world. Jews continually turn up, not just as Zionists but in other coded forms, including "Israel's American supporters," "dual loyalists," "cultural Marxists" and "international bankers."

Not one credentialed Historian supports the lies of Willis Carto and the International Historical review. thumbs up

Willis A. Carto: Fabricating History http://www.adl.org/holocaust/carto.asp
Officially the "Treasurer" of the Washington, DC-based Liberty Lobby, Willis Allison Carto is the group's founder and driving force. Over the group's 40-year history, Carto has come into contact with virtually every significant figure on the radical right and he remains perhaps the most influential professional anti-Semite in the United States.
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"If Satan himself... had tried to create a... force for the destruction of the nations, he could have done no better than to invent the Jews."
-- Willis Carto

In 1955, Carto announced that he was organizing "a lobby for patriotism," which eventually became known as Liberty Lobby — presently the most influential right-wing extremist propaganda organization in the United States. Although Carto is Liberty Lobby's founder and leader, he typically directs the group's operations from behind the scenes. For example, in an August 15, 1993, letter to The Washington Post Book World — itself a rare instance of Carto appearing in a non-Liberty Lobby forum — the veteran hatemonger described himself as "an officer and (low-paid) employee" of the organization he created. Shunning attention, he rarely speaks in public, generally refuses to be interviewed, and even keeps his name off the masthead of Liberty Lobby's weekly tabloid, The Spotlight. His official title of "Treasurer" greatly understates the scope of his authority.

While running Liberty Lobby from the shadows, Carto established a network of extremist publications and organizations. In 1966, he acquired control of the magazine American Mercury, originally associated with H.L. Mencken, and transformed it into a quarterly journal of anti-Semitic propaganda. He issued it in tandem with the bimonthly Washington Observer Newsletter, similarly laced with anti-Semitism. Both are now defunct. Previously, Carto had founded Western Destiny (also defunct), a magazine which during the 1960s produced racist, Nazi-tinged articles; and Noontide Press, which continues to publish and offer for sale anti-Jewish and pro-Nazi books.

One such book was Francis Parker Yockey's 600-page Imperium, which was dedicated to Adolf Hitler and featured a 35-page introduction written by Carto himself. Yockey, an outspoken admirer of Hitler, was arrested in San Francisco in 1960 on passport fraud charges and subsequently committed suicide in prison. His book offers a rehash of Nazi doctrine -- it denounced, for example, "the Church-State-Nation-People-Race of the Jew" as "distorters of culture."

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"Hitler's defeat was the defeat of Europe. And of America. . . . The blame . . . must be laid at the door of the international Jews."
-- Willis Carto

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Yockey's ideology pervades the propaganda of Liberty Lobby and its off-shoots, such as the Institute for Historical Review (IHR), which specializes in Holocaust-denial propaganda, and the Populist Party, a far-right political vehicle. This extremist agenda persists among these groups in spite of the fact that the Populist Party -- since renamed the American Nationalist Union -- and IHR have broken from Carto and the Liberty Lobby network. Under oath during proceedings connected with an unsuccessful Liberty Lobby lawsuit against ADL in 1979, Carto admitted to remaining faithful to the tenets of Yockey's neo-Nazi philosophy.

As deep as his attachment to Yockey is Carto's antipathy toward Jews. (A racist as well as an anti-Semite, Carto complained during the 1950s that "only a few Americans are concerned about the inevitable niggerfication of America.") In October 1966, the late columnist Drew Pearson published the contents of a letter written by Carto which stated:

"Hitler's defeat was the defeat of Europe. And of America. How could we have been so blind? The blame, it seems, must be laid at the door of the international Jews. It was their propaganda, lies and demands which blinded the West to what Germany was doing. . . . If Satan himself, with all of his superhuman genius and diabolical ingenuity at his command, had tried to create a permanent disintegration and force for the destruction of the nations, he could have done no better than to invent the Jews."

In a subsequent memo, Carto elaborated on these beliefs:

"Who is using who [sic]? Who is calling the shots? History supplies the answer to this. History tells us plainly who our Enemy is. Our Enemy today is the same Enemy of 50 years ago and before -- and that was before Communism. The Communists are 'using' the Jews we are told. . . . [W]ho was 'using the Jews 50 years ago --100 or 1,000 years ago. History supplies the answer. The Jews came first and remain Public Enemy No. 1."

Carto's anti-Semitism was further manifested in the Institute for Historical Review, which he founded in 1979 to spearhead a movement to deny the reality of the Holocaust and to market Holocaust-denial propaganda. Carto was aided at the start by William David McCalden, a racist and anti-Semitic British publicist who -- using the alias Lewis Brandon -- served as IHR director until 1981 (when he left due to differences with Carto). Based in Costa Mesa, California, the IHR operated under a guise of scholarship and published spurious "revisionist" studies laced with anti-Semitic themes in its quarterly Journal of Historical Review and the now-discontinued IHR Newsletter. Carto promoted the Institute, contributors to its publications and Holocaust denial generally in The Spotlight and on "Radio Free America." A 15-page "Holocaust supplement" in the December 24, 1979, issue of The Spotlight included headlines that amplified Carto's unique rendition of the holiday spirit: "Were Six Million Jews Exterminated?" "Famous 'Gas Chamber Victims' Living Well," "Need $50,000? Find a Holocaust Victim," "Torture Used to Make Germans 'Confess.'" As Deborah Lipstadt has noted, The Spotlight ran articles claiming that Auschwitz victims were cremated to control typhoid, that the "gas chambers" were actually life-saving delousing showers, that the Diary of Anne Frank was a hoax and that Jews created the six million number to convince the United Nations to support the creation of Israel.

Carto was also able to gather virtually all of the world's foremost deniers at IHR's annual conferences, as well as surviving Nazis, children of Nazis, anti-Jewish polemicists not known for their views about the Holocaust and nonracist iconoclasts (like Hitler biographer John Toland and journalist John Sack). Carto set the tone for these events with his remarks at the organization's first conference in 1979, calling the Holocaust "atrocity propaganda" and declaring Zionists to be "predators" who exploit the "guilt" of the West and "offer us expiation for the sins of our fathers by giving us the magnificent opportunity to contribute to the building of God's promised land for God's chosen people with our tax money."

In September 1993, the Institute's editorial staff and board of directors voted to terminate its association with its founder. On October 4, 1993, Carto received a letter announcing that he had been "fired." According to court documents, the falling-out stemmed from the purchase of a new Cadillac by Carto's wife using IHR funds, Carto's purchase of an insufficient insurance policy prior to a 1984 arson that destroyed IHR's warehouse and offices, his skimping on pay and health benefits and his "launching and subsequent mishandling of the reward offer" in the Mel Mermelstein affair. The latter referred to a civil judgment successfully brought against IHR by Auschwitz survivor Mermelstein after the Institute failed to pay him a $50,000 "reward" it had offered for "proof" that the Nazis had operated execution gas chambers during World War II. (The 1985 court judgment forced IHR to pay both the $50,000 reward and an additional $40,000 for pain and suffering.) IHR's director at the time, Tom Marcellus, also alleged that Carto planned to redesign the Journal for Historical Review into a more straightforwardly racist publication.

The most significant stake in this controversy was control of as much as $10 million in stock certificates bequeathed to IHR's parent corporation, The Legion for the Survival of Freedom, by Jean Farrel, an heir of Thomas Edison. The summer before Carto's "dismissal," Marcellus reportedly discovered a $100,000 bank order for Liberty Lobby drawn from the Farrel bequest. According to Marcellus, Carto had directed his wife to set up a corporation for the sole purpose of controlling Farrel's money and loaning it back to the Legion -- thus making the Legion a less attractive target for potential lawsuits. Because the IHR defined itself as the Legion, the senior staffers demanded control of the money bequeathed to the parent company. Marcellus discovered that while Carto had long claimed to be merely the corporation's "agent," the Legion listed as a corporate director a person who had been dead for five years; the board had never met; and Carto was the sole and controlling voice. Marcellus and his colleagues and lawyer were able to assemble a new board that terminated all association with Carto.

Carto's immediate response was to arrange a meeting with the IHR principals and their lawyer. While they waited for Carto at the lawyer's office, he went instead to IHR headquarters with his wife and three others and began disconnecting telephones, changing locks and tampering with computers; he also faxed the IHR attorney, stating that he was "now in control of the IHR office." A scuffle ensued, and he was ultimately dragged from the premises by police as he screamed, "You're killing me."

As the dispute entered a long and complicated litigation that would involve several lawsuits -- and prompt a relentless campaign of vituperation and false rumor by Carto -- The Spotlight announced in August 1994 that Liberty Lobby was launching a new publication devoted to historical revisionism called The Barnes Review (after the 20th century revisionist historian Harry Elmer Barnes). In a Spotlight editorial, Carto stated:

Real news, like real history, is very controversial in this day of the politicization of both. So what is more appropriate than for The Barnes Review to be assisted by the staff of the one American newspaper, The Spotlight, which has proven...to be far ahead of the rest of the news media in reporting events...which are habitually hushed up by that same media which touts myth and lies as history?

Fortune has not smiled on Carto in recent years. On November 15, 1996, California Superior Court Judge Runston G. Maino ruled in favor of IHR, saying Carto owed the group and the Legion for the Survival of Freedom, $6.43 million of the estimated $7.5 million bequeathed by Farrel. Judge Maino further characterized Carto's role in the proceedings: "I found that much of his testimony made no sense; much of his testimony in court was different from his previous testimony; much of his testimony was contradicted by other witnesses or by documents. By the end of the trial I was of the opinion that Mr. Carto lacked candor, lacked memory, and lacked the ability to be forthright about what he did honestly remember."

In response to the decision, both Carto and Liberty Lobby filed for bankruptcy. After three years of legal and extralegal maneuverings to slow or avoid making debt payments and, allegedly, to shield his assets in corporate shells, a series of Federal Bankruptcy Court decisions in June and July 2001 forced him to relinquish control over The Spotlight and Liberty Lobby. He also lost the Washington, D.C., offices Liberty Lobby had occupied for 40 years. Hardly slowing, Carto and his associates produced a rejiggered version of The Spotlight in August called the American Free Press.

Willis Carto
http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-files/profiles/willis-carto

Ideology: White NationalistWillis Carto has been a major figure on the American radical right since the 1950s, when he set up his anti-Semitic Liberty Lobby with offices not far from the White House. Although at one time he had access to leading politicians, Carto eventually became infamous for his pro-Nazi and rabidly anti-Jewish views and lost those connections. In 1978, he founded the first major American Holocaust-denial outfit, the Institute for Historical Review. Throughout his career, Carto has been known for his anti-Semitism, anti-black racism and the wild alternative health claims regularly made in his various publications.

In His Own Words
"Without a means of confronting the onrushing third world, white civilization is doomed. It can do nothing else but deteriorate to a third world level with all that implies: the final triumph of liberalism; political correctness; a garbage culture; poverty; the extermination of the middle class and then Marxism. It means Jewish political and cultural domination, including a political tyranny comparable to Stalinism."
— "Is Christianity Relevant?", The Barnes Review website...............In 1984, Carto helped to found the far right Populist Party, which soon became a haven for white supremacists and other racial extremists. David Duke, the former Ku Klux Klan leader, captured the party's presidential nomination in 1988, winning 0.05% of the national vote; in 1992, Bo Gritz, the former Green Beret and militia enthusiast, headed the party's ticket, grabbing 0.1%, twice the amount that Duke had received. Behind the scenes, however, infighting was splitting the party's ranks. According to a report by the Anti-Defamation League, before Duke's nomination in 1988, Carto and his followers were pushed from power, forcing him to set up a separate faction under the leadership of Don Wassall, who later broke with Carto over financial and managerial disputes (Wassall would later found his own racist organization, the American Nationalist Union, and become a chapter leader in the white supremacist Council of Conservative Citizens). Carto then turned on the Populist Party, using the Liberty Lobby's newspaper, The Spotlight, to attack his former organization. By 1994, political infighting had so riven the organization that it was unable to field a candidate in the 1996 election....................Recently, Carto himself has apparently become an adherent of Christian Identity. In an article posted on The Barnes Review website entitled, "Is Christianity Relevant?," he claimed that the "present day Jews are not the descendants of the group celebrated in the die [sic] Old Testament but as a combination of races in no way connected to it." Instead, Identity adherents believe that the "Aryan white races — the Germanic and Keltic peoples in particular — are literally the chosen people of God," Carto writes. "Based on this reality, one must conclude that the Identity message holds out hope for survival — not only spiritual and cultural survival — but racial survival."

MoMo Mon Sep 12, 2011 12:55 pm

an example of the Neo NAZIS and rodins/eternal spirits idea of a 'source' for their 'beliefs'. thumbs up

Institute for Historical Review

http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-files/groups/institute-for-historical-review

Founded: 1978
Location: Newport Beach, CA
Profiled Leadership: Willis Carto
Ideology: Holocaust Denial
Founded in 1978 by Willis Carto, a longtime anti-Semite, the Institute for Historical Review (IHR) is a pseudo-academic organization that claims to seek "truth and accuracy in history," but whose real purpose is to promote Holocaust denial and defend Nazism. Once a prominent voice in extremist circles, the IHR has been on the decline, unable to publish its anti-Semitic Journal of Historical Review or sponsor major international Holocaust denial conferences since 2004. The organization still runs its website, where it peddles extremist books and other materials, and hosts some minor extremist gatherings.

In Its Own Words
"Anyone who is aware of the true situation in Germany during the Third Reich era recognizes that the Crystal Night [the Nazi-orchestrated Kristallnacht pogrom against Jews] episode was quite extraordinary. It was a radical aberration from the normal pattern of daily life. The outburst was not in keeping with either the official National Socialist Jewish policy nor with the general German attitude towards the Jews. The Germans were no more anti-Semitic than any other people."
— Ingrid Weckert, "'Crystal Night' 1938: The great anti-German spectacle," Institute for Historical Review website

"On this basis of their similar ideologies about ethnicity and nationhood, National Socialists and Zionists worked together for what each group believed was in its own national interest. As a result, the Hitler government vigorously supported Zionism and Jewish emigration to Palestine from 1933 until 1940-1941, when the Second World War prevented extensive collaboration… . The SS was particularly enthusiastic in its support for Zionism."
—Mark Weber, "Zionism and the Third Reich," Institute for Historical Review website

"Although officially Jews have never made up more than five percent of the country's total population, they played a highly disproportionate and probably decisive role in the infant Bolshevik regime, effectively dominating the Soviet government during its early years. Soviet historians, along with most of their colleagues in the West, for decades preferred to ignore this subject. The facts, though, cannot be denied."
—Mark Weber, "The Jewish Role in the Bolshevik Revolution and Russia's Early Soviet Regime," Institute for Historical Review website

Background
In 1978, Willis Carto, founder and head of the anti-Semitic Liberty Lobby, based in Washington, D.C., spun off a new organization called the Institute for Historical Review (IHR). It presented itself as a legitimate historical research group, devoted to "revisionism" — a term hijacked from a school of credible historians who offered new interpretations for the origins of World War I. But in fact, it was made up of white supremacists and neo-Nazis, and it would draw expertise from the like-minded around the world. Its mission was to erase the Holocaust by any means at its disposal — including distortion, misquotation and outright falsification.

IHR's first annual conference in 1979 attracted deniers from around the world and helped to introduce some key American extremists to Holocaust denial. David Duke, the neo-Nazi who was then the national leader of the Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, was so taken with the idea that he followed up the conference with a "Special Holocaust Edition" of his Crusader newspaper. In the same way, National Socialist Party of America leader Frank Collin enthusiastically embraced denial, saying, "There was no Holocaust, but they deserve one — and will get it." For years, IHR's yearly conferences were key events that offered networking opportunities for neo-Nazis and anti-Semites from around the world.

A critical contribution by IHR was the pseudo-academic gloss it applied to its anti-Semitism. The group actively tried to avoid blatant anti-Jewish slurs, and instead sought to couch its politics in distortions of history and science meant to sound reasonable. Though the theories that resulted were far out, they had at least the appearance of legitimacy, as did The Journal of Historical Review that the IHR began to publish in 1980. Deniers would claim, for example, that the Anne Frank diary is a fraud because it contained marks made with a postwar ballpoint pen (they didn't mention that the marks were made later by Frank's father, who survived German concentration camps to edit and publish the diary). They would assert that the death-camp ovens were not capable of burning as many bodies as the Allies had said were disposed of after gassing. They lied about the qualities of the Zyklon B gas used to kill Jews, the operation of the Einsatzgruppen (the mobile killing squads which shot to death more than 1 million Jews in Eastern Europe), and hundreds of other facts. Through it all, IHR sought to give the appearance that its writers were honest, if skeptical, students of history.

Throughout the 1980s and early 1990s, IHR hosted conferences that attracted various well-known Holocaust deniers from around the world: Ernst Zündel and John Ball of Canada (Zündel was later deported by Canada to his native Germany); Robert Faurisson of France; Friedrich Berg of Germany; Carlo Mattogno of Italy; and Jürgen Graf and Arthur Vogt of Switzerland. Most notably, David Irving, a writer whose Holocaust denial activities caused a British judge to label him "a right-wing, pro-Nazi polemicist," attended in 1983, and went on to speak before at least four more conferences, in 1989, 1990, 1992, 1994, as well as at numerous other IHR events.

While outwardly thriving during this period, internally there was a power struggle going on for control of IHR. In the mid-1980s, Mark Weber, a former news editor of National Vanguard, a neo-Nazi publication of the National Alliance, began taking a leading role at Willis Carto's IHR. In 1984, Weber began leading the group's annual conferences, and the next year he joined the IHR's editorial advisory committee; in 1992, he took over IHR's The Journal of Historical Review. In 1993, with Weber's support, the IHR board ousted Carto as its leader, accusing him of interfering in editorial decisions. The following May, Carto and his wife tried to retake IHR by occupying its California offices, a situation that led to fistfights and Carto being forcefully removed by the police. Around the same time, another dispute between IHR and Carto broke out, with IHR leaders accusing Carto of diverting some $10 million that was allegedly left to IHR's parent body, the Legion for the Survival of Freedom.

During the decade of litigation that followed, Carto's The Spotlight, the newspaper published by his Liberty Lobby, characterized Weber as a "rat," "cockroach" and "devil," but in the end Weber's side basically won. In 1996, a California court ruled in favor of IHR, saying that Carto owed the Legion for the Survival of Freedom $6.43 million. In 2001, The Spotlight was shut down, although it was rapidly replaced with the look-alike American Free Press, which like its predecessor focused on the alleged evils of "Zionism," wild-eyed conspiracy theories, and wacky alternative health claims. Carto also created The Barnes Review, a new Holocaust denial journal that competed directly with IHR.

While Weber and the IHR won their lawsuits, the fight with Carto proved to be a great distraction for the organization. It could not regularly publish the bimonthly The Journal of Historical Review (no issues were published between April 1996 and May 1997) and it was unable to hold any conferences between 1994 and 2000. IHR did manage to put on a major conference in 2000, with Irving, Zündel, and other notable Holocaust deniers in attendance, but a planned 2001 conference on "Revisionism and Zionism" in Beirut, Lebanon, was cancelled after the host government "would not permit the four-day meeting to take place."

Since then, the IHR has continued to decline. By 2003, it had stopped publishing its journal and its once-large conferences were reduced to mostly small, one-day affairs with a couple of speakers. A major blow came in 2009 when Weber decided to downgrade Holocaust denial in favor of criticizing Jews and Israel. Weber was viciously attacked by several important revisionists, many of whom called for his resignation from IHR. Weber still speaks in public and on radio shows such as "The Political Cesspool," which is run by white nationalist James Edwards of Memphis, Tenn. IHR also still maintains its website and continues to sell extremist books, but it is clearly a shadow of its former self.

MoMo Mon Sep 12, 2011 12:58 pm

Willis Carto and the IHR

http://www.nizkor.org/faqs/ihr/

The Institute for Historical Review held its major event of the year at an unnamed restaurant meeting room in Arlington Virginia on July 8. IHR director Mark Weber, and Paul Fromm, director of the extremist Canadian Association for Free Expression, were the featured speakers. Weber spoke about "the Jewish Zionist role in determining American foreign policy," and praised the recent study about the "Israel Lobby" by Stephen Walt and John Mearsheimer; Fromm focused on the imprisonment of Holcaust-deniers David Irving in Austria and Ernst Zundel in Germany. According to the IHR, "30 or so" people attended and gave Weber "a standing ovation" after his remarks...............Background Information

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The Institute for Historical Review was founded in 1979 by Lewis Brandon, who also served as the first director. (Lewis Brandon is an alias for William David McCalden, a British neo-fascist who in 1975 had founded Britain's National Party, a break-away from the notorious neo-Nazi National Front.)

The IHR operates under the umbrella of the Legion for Survival of Freedom, a registered non-profit corporation in the State of Texas.

The Institute for Historical Review is the moving force in the movement to deny the Holocaust. Its initial meeting was opened by Willis Carto, who also funds the organization, and whom some (including Dennis King, author of the 1989 work "Lyndon LaRouche and the New American Fascism") credit with starting it. No matter - with McCalden out of the way (he left the IHR, and has since died), the IHR was Carto's mouthpiece, until his forced ouster in late 1994.

Among the speakers at the 1980 convention were the Swede, Ditlieb Felderer, convicted and institutionalised in his country, and the Frenchman, Robert Faurisson, convicted in his country of libel and promoting racism and expelled from his University (though he still misrepresents himself as member of its faculty).

Willis Carto
Carto, born in 1926 in Indiana, had helped edit "Right" (a mid-fifties San Francisco newsletter for an information clearinghouse for antisemitic activities), was, inter alia, director of the far right Congress of Freedom and, briefly, organiser for the John Birch Society, from which he was later expelled.

In 1989, Dennis King provided this picture of Carto's ideological background during his discussion of the connection between Lyndon LaRouche, the NCLC (see Glossary, below), and Carto's Liberty Lobby (get pub/orgs/american/ihr/larouche.ihr):

Carto, founder of the Liberty Lobby, was by far the most successful and influential American anti-Semite of the 1970s. He was an intellectual disciple of the late Francis Parker Yockey, who roamed Europe and North America in the 1950s futilely attempting to build an underground movement. Carto met Yockey only once - in San Francisco in 1960, when Yockey was in jail awaiting trial for possession of false passports. Several days after their meeting, Yockey committed suicide in his cell by taking cyanide. Carto, already an ultrarightist, dedicated himself to carrying out Yockey's mission to save Western civilization.
This mission was set forth in Yockey's 'Imperium,' a 600-page synthesis of Nazi racialism and Oswald Spengler's philosophy of history. The book was dedicated to the 'Hero of the Second World War' (Hitler). But Carto, although devoted to Yockey's ideas, had no illusions about Yockey's tactics. Instead of engaging in inept conspiracies, he concentrated on building a political movement and developed a populist cover ideology. Although he discreetly sold 'Mein Kampf' and 'The Protocols of the Elders of Zion' by mail, he publicly denied being either a Nazi or an anti-Semite - he was merely 'anti-Zionist.'

Carto defended Hitler's heritage, not by saying the Holocaust had been a good thing, but by denying that it ever took place. He founded the Institute for Historical Review to prove that the alleged murder of six million Jews was a hoax invented by Zionists to make people feel sorry for them. Carto went so far as to publish a theory that the gas ovens at Auschwitz were really just an industrial facility for converting coal into oil, operated by happy well-fed Jewish prisoners.

Carto's Liberty Lobby, based in Washington, D.C., and nominally headed by Colonel Curtis B. Dall (a former son-in-law of President Franklin D. Roosevelt), enjoyed friendly ties with conservative congressmen. It published a weekly tabloid, 'The Spotlight,' which by 1979 enjoyed a paid circulation of almost 200,000 (Circulation peaked at 315,000 in 1981 and had fallen to about 90,000 by 1992. George & Wilcox, 260). Its articles championed income-tax rebels, protested the plight of family farmers, and promoted quack cancer cures such as laetrile. Its favorite political targets included the Rockefellers, the Rothschilds, Henry Kissenger, the Council on Foreign Relations, and the 'Zionist entity' in Palestine." (King, 39-40)

Hotels in mission valleyLimited liability corporationInvention IdeasBackgrounds
What kind of a man is Carto? The answer to that question is suggested by his writing:

There are 600 million Chinese and about 200 million Russians. All united in a determination to destroy the West. And we have been so misled that we live in a dream world - far away from reality. Hitler's defeat was the defeat of Europe. And America. How could we have been so blind? The blame, it seems, must be laid at the door of the international Jews. It was their propaganda, lies and demands which blinded the West as to what Germany was doing. --- from a letter to Norris Holt
Who is using who? Who is calling the shots? History supplies the answer to this. History tells us plainly who our Enemy is. Our Enemy today is the same Enemy of 50 years ago and before - and that was before Communism. The Communists are "using" the Jews we are told ... who was "using" the Jews fifty years ago - one hundred or one thousand years ago. History supplies the answer. The Jews came first and remain Public Enemy No. 1. --- a memo to himself

In fact, no objective Scholar can deny today that the world would be a far better place to live if Germany had won - even if it had meant the defeat of American arms!

Let us first understand who won and who lost the last war. The victors were Soviet Russia, international Communism, Red China, Israel, international Zionism, the international money manipulators (Wall Street-CFR crowd) and rising colored nationalisms the world over.

Let us now name the losers: All of the European nations, most certainly including Britain and her now non-existent Empire, the United States, White world-hegemony and the idea of the war-preventing, world-saving philosophy of nationalism and non-interference in the affairs of others. ..........

(Hitler and Chamberlain, incidentally, and contrary to the massive lies told about "Munich," worked out a sensible and workable agreement at Munich to save Europe from a war. In return for a free hand in the east, Hitler guaranteed Chamberlain that Germany would not contest Britain's dominance on the seas, or covet any of her colonies. The deal was broken by the war-madness stirred up by the British press in obedience to the financial power after Hitler marched on Poland - and also by pressure from Roosevelt.)

..........

Israel and Zionism would be unknown - still a crazy dream in the minds of a few fanatics - and the secret international power of the Zionist conspiracy would not be in existence nor the manifold culture distortions which flow from this disease source into all of the western nations. ..........

Juvenile delinquency would be uncommon because the youth of America would be filled with patriotism, the natural aftermath of defeat in war, and there would be something to aspire to. Desegregation and the cultural negrification of America would be unknown. ..........

What would have been the effect of a German victory inside Germany? It is important to remember that Hitler's ambition stopped in Europe - he would have gone no further. He would have stopped if for no other reason that he yearned to build Germany into an architectural paradise. The result of German victory would have brought a true internationalism of Europe! The United Europe only dreamed of today would have been a certain result of the war. ..........

The important thing to note is that a German victory would have assured that the life-span of the White world would have been extended for many centuries more than now seems likely; indeed, for the "thousand years" promised by Hitler. --- from American Mercury, Summer 1973

By the way, the author of this last article is "E. L. Anderson, Ph.D.", which is an alias for Carto.

What kind of a man is Willis Carto? You tell me...

In 1955 Carto founded Liberty Lobby as a right-wing political pressure group in Washington D.C., and has been running it ever since.

The Simon Wiesenthal Center's 1994 infiltration report has this to say about Carto:

Willis Carto is the most influential professional antisemite in the United States. He is the founder of Liberty Lobby, the Institute for Historical Review, the Noontide Press (which distributes a wide range of racist and antisemitic titles), and the Populist Party, whose 1988 Presidential candidate was David Duke. Carto's name came up in nearly every conversation held between Ron Furey, S.W.C. researcher, Richard Eaton, and the neo-Nazis. Literature produced by the Carto organization is widely read by German's radical right. In addition, several of those interviewed know Mr. Carto personally.

Liberty and Property
Diamond tells us that "...Carto had also run an outfit called Liberty and Property, and published a monthly newsletter called 'Right', from 1955 to 1960. Through 'Right' Carto attempted to link the segregationist Citizen's Councils with the grassroots anti-communist groups of the McCarthy era, and with some of the unsuccessful racist splinter parties of the time. As it grew, the Liberty Lobby would later downplay its Klan and neo-Nazi movement connections. But the pages of 'Right' are a goldmine of evidence on the Lobby's racist origins and agenda. Carto recommended that his readers join up with George Lincoln Rockwell's American Nazi Party, whose leader J. B. Stoner was convicted for the 1958 Klan bombing of the Bethel Baptist Church in Alabama."

rodin, you and your fellow Neo NAZIs are transparent.................... thumbs up

The Neo NAZIS and rodin/eternal spirit hate this guy and site................. thumbs up

The Chomsky Hoax

Articles and documents exposing the dishonesty and fanaticism of extreme left-wing propagandist and genocide denier Noam Chomsky.

http://www.paulbogdanor.com/chomskyhoax.html

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more tools of deception used by Neo Nazis and rodin.....

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